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Political Conversation and Debate This forum is not a temporary one. It will exist up to, and after the presidential elections. Some people want to talk or even argue politics, other's don't. Let's see if we can apply some reason and understanding to the debate.

 
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  #856 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2008, 10:42 PM
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All the way with Hillary!
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  #857 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2008, 03:14 AM
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Clinton may be hopeful, but Obama rolls on - International Herald Tribune
Quote:
One of Clinton's chief strategists, Geoff Garin, said the campaign hoped to end the primary season on June 3 lifted by a series of victories, and by coming close in the pledged delegate totals and the popular vote — though he declined to say what close would be.

"We'll know it when we see it," Garin said.
AKA "Close is whatever the difference ends up being."
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  #858 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2008, 05:41 PM
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Some criticism for the oil tax vacation

Bloomberg.com: Opinion

Quote:
Clinton Caught in Time Warp With Windfall Oil Tax
Commentary by Amity Shlaes

May 2 (Bloomberg) -- Jimmy Carter's in the news again. The former president wants a windfall-profits tax. No wait, he wants the U.S. to recognize Hamas. Hillary Clinton is the one who wants a windfall-profits tax.

It seems that every year, usually just around the time Memorial Day comes into view, a politician demands a tax on oil profits. Richard Nixon's economists offered one up in 1973, arguing, almost vindictively, that they were justified in imposing a stiff levy because the tax would "make up in some degree for windfalls which have occurred in the past...
Quote:
Senator Clinton has couched her support in terms of the hunt for revenue: "I'm the only one with a plan,'' she said earlier this week. And lots of other Americans, not just Democrats, are eager for a break at the pump.

What to make of it? Insanity has been defined as doing the same thing over and over again, and each time expecting a different result. By this definition, a new windfall-profits tax would suggest a sort of collective insanity...
Quote:
...All these missteps by his opponents actually leave Senator Barack Obama looking pretty good. He commented recently on the gas tax holiday, saying "this isn't an idea designed to get you through the summer. It's designed to get you through the election."

He's right. In her energy plans, Clinton believes she's found a political windfall. But those plans are so poorly crafted they may prove to be what wipes her out.
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  #859 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2008, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by methomps View Post
Clinton may be hopeful, but Obama rolls on - International Herald Tribune
AKA "Close is whatever the difference ends up being."
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  #860 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2008, 11:08 PM
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Best quote yet:

"I find it ironic that Hillary is being done in by the vast left-wing conspiracy." - Dennis Miller

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  #861 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2008, 06:29 PM
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An omen?

Clinton's Derby pick: Eight Belles

Quote:
Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, entering the home stretch of her own close political horse race, revealed her sentimental choice for Saturday's Run for the Roses, the filly Eight Belles, a long shot.

"I want everybody to place a little money on the filly," Clinton told cheering supporters at her campaign headquarters in Louisville. In Wednesday's morning line, the filly was listed at 20-1 odds.
Eight Belles had to be euthanized on the spot when she broke both ankles.

The winner was Big Brown (although Obama picked Col. John).
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  #862 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2008, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuckFich06 View Post
An omen?

Clinton's Derby pick: Eight Belles



Eight Belles had to be euthanized on the spot when she broke both ankles.

The winner was Big Brown (although Obama picked Col. John).
Man that's just weird...

(Captain in the Navy - McCain's last rank is correlated with Colonel in the Army).
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  #863 (permalink)  
Old 05-04-2008, 01:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandgk View Post
Man that's just weird...

(Captain in the Navy - McCain's last rank is correlated with Colonel in the Army).
You think that's weird, go to 2:00 on this video, Joe Scarborough does his best Nostradamus impression:

morning joe
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  #864 (permalink)  
Old 05-04-2008, 09:51 PM
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Robert Reich's Blog: Hillary Clinton Doesn't Listen to Economists

Quote:
When asked this morning by ABC News' George Stephanopoulos if she could name a single economist who backs her call for a gas tax holiday this summer, HRC said "I'm not going to put my lot in with economists.”

I know several of the economists who have been advising Senator Clinton, so I phoned them right after I heard this. I reached two of them. One hadn’t heard her remark and said he couldn’t believe she’d say it. The other had heard it and shrugged it off as “politics as usual.”

That’s the problem: Politics as usual.

The gas tax holiday is small potatoes relative to everything else. But it’s so economically stupid (it would increase demand for gas and cause prices to rise, eliminating any benefit to consumers while costing the Treasury more than $9 billion, and generate more pollution) and silly (even if she won, HRC won’t be president this summer) as to be worrisome. That HRC now says she doesn’t care that what economists think is even more troubling.

In case you’ve missed it, we now have a president who doesn’t care what most economists think. George W. Bush doesn’t even care what scientists think. He rejects all experts who disagree with his politics. This has led to some extraordinarily stupid policies.
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  #865 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2008, 10:28 AM
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  #866 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2008, 11:20 AM
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Who to Vote For?

I am very unsettled about any and all of the candidates for the Presidency. For me it may be voting for the best of the worst. There was a time when great men became Presidents. (This could equally apply to great women) I see no clear cut differences (philosophically) among the three. At this moment in time we do not need a good President. We need a great President. Good is the enemy of great. I fear that the majority of America is satisfied with merely good.
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  #867 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2008, 05:23 PM
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More of the same BS from Rush...

Quote:
Limbaugh issues orders for Indiana

Email|Link|Comments (28) Posted by Foon Rhee, deputy national political editor May 6, 2008 01:22 PM
Today's Indiana Democratic primary is not only a big test for Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama.

It's also a test for talk-show host Rush Limbaugh, the self-proclaimed commander in chief of "Operation Chaos."

Indiana's primary is open to Republicans and independents, as well as Democrats. Limbaugh is urging Republicans to cross over and vote for Clinton to extend the Democratic nomination fight and, he hopes, further damage the eventual nominee.

UPDATE: The Indianapolis Star reported online today that it appeared that droves of "hard-core" Republicans are crossing over to vote in the Democratic primary in GOP strongholds in Marion County and suburbs.
Exit polls suggest that Limbaugh's soldiers could have made a difference March 4 in Texas, where Clinton pulled out a narrow win in the primary, though Obama won the simultaneous caucuses.

Limbaugh told listeners on Monday that Democratic Party officials in Indiana are trying to intimidate Republican voters with monitors at the polls. So he issued these orders: "Flood these precincts. Vote for Mrs. Clinton as an act of defiance against these police-state tactics as a form of protest....
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  #868 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2008, 05:28 PM
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FWIW... from the Nation

How Does Hillary Clinton Feel About the White Racist Vote?

Quote:
How Does Hillary Clinton Feel About the White Racist Vote?
May 5, 2008

If you haven't already, check out my colleague Betsy Reed's compelling account of how Hillary Clinton's campaign has deployed the racist playbook of the right against Barack Obama. As Betsy argues, Clinton has positioned herself to take advantage of the feeding frenzy around Rev. Wright, and her surrogates have portrayed "the black candidate" as less American, less patriotic and most importantly in what is now a race for superdelegates, less electable.

It's that last word--electable--that really rankles me because it imputes "electability" to the candidates themselves. It's as if "electability" were a personal quality--like integrity, compassion or in more biologized accounts, say, blonde hair--that candidates possess in varying degrees. All of this is absurd since "electability" is wholly determined by the voters, usually. (In 2000, George W. Bush didn't possess "electability" so much as he was gifted it by the Supreme Court.)

Now, in order to convince superdelegates to buck the will of the majority of Democratic primary voters, Hillary Clinton is arguing that she's the more "electable" candidate, and some of her surrogates are suggesting that Obama is not "electable" against John McCain. But just what is it about Hillary that makes her more "electable" than Barack? From reading the Clinton campaign's material, you'd never know it has anything to do with her race. Instead, they talk in euphemisms and codes. In a memo titled "HRC Strongest Against McCain," Clinton strategist Harold Ickes points to her superior polling in "swing states" and among "swing voting blocs" like "Catholics," as well as Obama's rising "unfavorables." Departed advisor Mark Penn has said that the working class is "a critical vote" that superdelegates should consider because "these are voters who in the past have gone either way in the general election."

Give me a break. We're not talking about swing voters, Catholics or the working class en masse. We're talking about the white, working class. As Mark Penn surely knows, it's not black working-class voters who "swing" the other way...
And...

Quote:
...So, in the name of another personal quality--honesty--I'd like Hillary Clinton to make the following statement: "Though my opponent has run a terrific campaign, in primary after primary, I have proven that I am the more electable candidate. I am more electable because I am white. Barack Obama--Wow!--he's certainly inspired a lot of hope, but as voters in Indiana and North Carolina make up their minds, as the superdelegates make up their minds, they should remember that Barack Obama is black...
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  #869 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2008, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'BusNative View Post
More of the same BS from Rush...
I really don't think this "Operation Chaos" is making that much of an impact. I think it is much more likely that Rush and his ilk are trying to preemptively making excuses for the flood of defections from the republican party.
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Old 05-06-2008, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGADBTWSOM View Post
I really don't think this "Operation Chaos" is making that much of an impact. I think it is much more likely that Rush and his ilk are trying to preemptively making excuses for the flood of defections from the republican party.
I honestly didn't think about it from that angle... interesting. I guess some of the polling following the IN primary will help to know.
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