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Political Conversation and Debate This forum is not a temporary one. It will exist up to, and after the presidential elections. Some people want to talk or even argue politics, other's don't. Let's see if we can apply some reason and understanding to the debate.

 
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  #1006 (permalink)  
Old 05-30-2008, 03:00 PM
'BusNative's Avatar
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Healing the wounds of Democrats' sexism - The Boston Globe

Geraldine is at it again:

Quote:
Healing the wounds of Democrats' sexism

That sexism impacted Clinton's campaign, I have no doubt. Did she lose a close election because of sexism? I don't know. But I do know that it will never happen again as long as women are willing to stand up and make sure that it is just a one-time bad experience.
Right, because some douche-bag with an "Iron my Shirt" poster is the same as HRC, Huckabee and Fox news invoking assination.

Quote:
...They see Obama's playing the race card throughout the campaign and no one calling him for it as frightening. They're not upset with Obama because he's black; they're upset because they don't expect to be treated fairly because they're white. It's not racism that is driving them, it's racial resentment. And that is enforced because they don't believe he understands them and their problems.
Wow. I missed the part of Obama's campaign where his rhetoric became Kwame Ture's. I also missed the part where Obama blamed America or any one person for any problems he's had in his life. The only person I can remember him blaming for anything was his deadbeat dad who left when he was a kid. Of course, I've heard the Rev. Wright stuff, but... Obama doesn't understand white people's problems? What are those, and how are they different than other people's problems? Problems in this country are, IMO, 99.0% economic.

Quote:
That when he said in South Carolina after his victory "Our Time Has Come" they believe he is telling them that their time has passed...
Is she an idiot? No idea how this statement (addressed to a mixed crowd) could have pointed out that only some of the people in the audience were the benefactors of that primary victory.

Quote:
...Whom he chooses for his vice president makes no difference to them. That he is pro-choice means little. Learning more about his bio doesn't do it. They don't identify with someone who has gone to Columbia and Harvard Law School and is married to a Princeton-Harvard Law graduate. His experience with an educated single mother and being raised by middle class grandparents is not something they can empathize with. They may lack a formal higher education, but they're not stupid. What they're waiting for is assurance that an Obama administration won't leave them behind...
So issues don't matter, but having a non Ivy-League president (Dubya went to Yale/Harvard, Clintons went to Yale Law, by the way) does matter? Maybe the people aren't stupid, but this point clearly is.

Quote:
Hope, change, and inspiration don't do it. A speech on racism might persuade editorial boards, but to these voters it's "just words." Obama has less than six months to make the case.
So maybe hope is not your thing (not sure what to tell you). Maybe change isn't (vote the incumbent party). Maybe you don't want to be inspired. Fine.

But then what the [censored] is Ferraro talking about? And, further, how the [censored] is this a case for HRC? Or anyone, for that matter?
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  #1007 (permalink)  
Old 05-30-2008, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'BusNative View Post
...So maybe hope is not your thing (not sure what to tell you). Maybe change isn't (vote the incumbent party). Maybe you don't want to be inspired. Fine.

But then what the [censored] is Ferraro talking about? And, further, how the [censored] is this a case for HRC? Or anyone, for that matter?
Serenity... NOW!!!
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  #1008 (permalink)  
Old 06-01-2008, 12:00 AM
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These people...

THE NEW REPUBLIC | Blogs
Quote:
Has it come to this? We tend to assume the Hillary camp's hot rhetoric--that Obama's less ready than McCain to be commander-in-chief, that the DNC in Florida is like Mugabe in Zimbabwe--is studied, purposeful, that they can't really believe it. That may be true at the Lanny Davis level, but by the time it trickles down to Hillary's most grassroots supporters, it becomes deadly serious.

Of the eight Hillary supporters I quiz at the protest (six of them women), only one says she'd even considervoting for Obama in the fall. "It's sad. I'm a lifelong Democrat and the party's been taken over by these Obama people who say they want 'change,'" gripes Linda of Horseheads, New York, outside the Marriott as a honking car decorated with a painting of Hillary, a glued-on bust of Cleopatra, and a tampon drives by. Linda, she says, has already gone to the state Board of Elections to learn how to write Hillary's name in in November. "So much has been stolen from her."

Justine, a self-described "diehard Democrat" from Greensboro, North Carolina, objects to the write-in idea. "It's gonna help Barack if you don't vote against him," she says. She and her friends got Sinclair to autograph their copies of the "Murder, Drugs, Gay Sex" flier. One of those friends, Jeannie, is living proof that, at least for some people, the long primary has done its damage. "When [Obama] first came out, we just thought he was too young," she explains. "But now I don't think he's qualified at all."

It's easy to sink into despair here. Standing and watching all these Democrats chat up Sinclair--who's retained Montgomery Blair Sibley as his lawyer and says the Republican National Committee has also been in touch with him--makes me want to fall to my knees, rend my garments, and start insanely screaming, "Wake up! Wake up! You'll hate a President John McCain!" But the rhetoric from the top has imparted its poison below, and the bitterest criticisms of Obama gain traction as they circulate through the virulently-pro-Hillary echo chamber. "Would you rather have a president who had an affair [Bill Clinton] or one who was a murderer [Obama]?" Jeannie, the Greensboro Democrat, asks a fellow in a floppy Tilley hat and Hillary buttons. "That's a good point," he replies.

Following instructions from Obama HQ, almost no Obama supporters have shown up to protest, amplifying the impression of the alternate Hillary universe. But around the edges, a few small signs of the other universe peek through, the one in which Barack Obama leads and most Democrats don't suspect him of multiple felonies. Inside the Marriott's gift shop, the sales clerk tells me that Democratic bumper stickers have been selling like crazy today. "Mostly Hillary?" I ask.

"Actually, mostly Obama," she giggles.
The Sinclair mentioned above is Larry Sinclair -- the idiot who claimed he smoked crack while Obama blew him in a limo... he failed a lie detector test on the issue.

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  #1009 (permalink)  
Old 06-01-2008, 10:37 PM
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Note to Hillary............go away, you lost. Quit trying to bend the rules.
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  #1010 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2008, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daddyphatsacs View Post
Note to Hillary............go away, you lost. Quit trying to bend the rules.
She won't. She will drag it on as long as possible then scream bloody murder that she was cheated.
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  #1011 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2008, 09:09 AM
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Clinton claiming the popular vote lead. Because that's all that matters. Even though she just said last month the super-delegates are all that matters. And a month before that, the pledged delegates. And a month before that, the popular vote, again.

Clinton's dishonest popular vote claim has a new caveat - The Jed Report
Quote:
Hillary Clinton claims to have won the so-called popular vote, but if you pay close attention to her words she is now using a critical qualifier: "in presidential primaries."

Many people won't notice Clinton's caveat, but the meaning of her carefully chosen words could not be more clear: her definition of "popular vote" now includes only primary states. In the past, she excluded four caucus states that did not report vote totals: Iowa, Maine, Nevada, and Washington. Now she's excluding all of them.

By excluding caucus states, Clinton is dismissing the preferences of voters in fourteen states, home to more than 56 million Americans and nearly one in five voters. And by Clinton's new rules, they might as well have never voted.
Clinton Puts Up Popular Vote Ad - The Fix
Quote:
According to Real Clear Politics, a must-bookmark for political junkies, Obama actually has 166,186 vote lead over Clinton in the popular vote -- 17,267,658 to 17,101,472. If Michigan's primary is included, where Clinton received 328,307 votes and Obama none due to the fact he removed his name from the ballot, Clinton takes a 162,123 vote lead.

Last edited by rocketman; 06-02-2008 at 09:17 AM.
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  #1012 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2008, 10:45 AM
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I absolutely abhor Clinton, but she has a point -- the margin (in either direction) is paper-thin, and either she or Obama could legitimately walk away from the convention with the nomination. Obama's supporters need to quit acting like it's some sort of foregone conclusion that their man will face McCain in the general election, because it is not.

I agree that Obama is the likely nominee, but I find the hue and cry against Hillary to be disingenuous.
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  #1013 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2008, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxBuck View Post
I absolutely abhor Clinton, but she has a point -- the margin (in either direction) is paper-thin, and either she or Obama could legitimately walk away from the convention with the nomination.
Especially if he gets assassinated.


Seriously though...anyone know why Michigan split the delegates the way they did? Giving Clinton 69 rather than 73?
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  #1014 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2008, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muck View Post
Especially if he gets assassinated.


Seriously though...anyone know why Michigan split the delegates the way they did? Giving Clinton 69 rather than 73?
Just a compromise. It'll work out as well as Missouri's.

Last edited by Gatorubet; 06-02-2008 at 06:14 PM.
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  #1015 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2008, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muck View Post
Seriously though...anyone know why Michigan split the delegates the way they did? Giving Clinton 69 rather than 73?
The main reason they cited was approximately 30K write-in votes (almost all for Obama) that couldn't be counted due to the law in MI, so the allocation was based upon uncommited+write-ins and with a dash of exit poll estimates to get the best "fair reflection" of voter preference. Obama had the votes to get a 50-50 split and in the spirit of "party unity" his supporters decided not to press it and to stick with the state's recommendation. The RBC (other than the Clinton shills) wanted to hammer MI because it was the Democrats in the state who drove the process of moving up the primary (unlike FL where it was Repub driven).

Well, that and we all know how bad Michiganders are at math.
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  #1016 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2008, 12:18 PM
sandgk's Avatar
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AP - Quote of The Day -- Clinton Campaign National Co-Chair Vilsack Declares Race Over ...

Quote:
QUOTE OF THE DAY:
"It does appear to be pretty clear that Senator Obama is going to be the nominee. After Tuesday's contests, she needs to acknowledge that he's going to be the nominee and quickly get behind him." — Tom Vilsack, the former Iowa governor and a national co-chairman of Hillary Rodham Clinton's campaign.
Meanwhile all the Clinton Campaign Birdies Called Back to The Nest - Or Out of It

Quote:
Members of Hillary Clinton's advance staff received calls and emails this evening from headquarters summoning them to New York City Tuesday night, and telling them their roles on the campaign are ending, two Clinton staffers tell my colleague Amie Parnes.
The advance staffers -- most of them now in Puerto Rico, South Dakota, and Montana -- are being given the options of going to New York for a final day Tuesday, or going home, the aides said. The move is a sign that the campaign is beginning to shed -- at least -- some of its staff. The advance staff is responsible for arranging the candidate's events around the country.
That is normally a sign - "Going Out of Business"
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  #1017 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2008, 12:43 PM
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AP: Clinton seeks to go after Obama superdelegates

Anybody know if there's any known instance of superdelegates being assassinated during the months of June/July in election years?

Quote:
Clinton seeks to go after Obama superdelegates

By JIM KUHNHENN, Associated Press Writer
Mon Jun 2, 9:00 AM ET

RAPID CITY, S.D. - As Barack Obama turns to concentrate on his general election challenge, his rival Hillary Rodham Clinton is mounting a last ditch campaign to stay relevant in what is left of the Democratic presidential contest.

The former first lady enters this week with an insurgent strategy not only to win over undecided superdelegates but to peel away Obama's support from those party leaders and elected officials who already have committed to back him for the nomination.

"One thing about superdelegates is that they can change their minds," she told reporters aboard her campaign plane Sunday night.

cont'd...
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  #1018 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2008, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandgk View Post
AP - Quote of The Day -- Clinton Campaign National Co-Chair Vilsack Declares Race Over ...



Meanwhile all the Clinton Campaign Birdies Called Back to The Nest - Or Out of It



That is normally a sign - "Going Out of Business"
Nice.
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  #1019 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2008, 06:08 PM
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How ironic would it be if her effective concession speech came from this location:



This is where Clinton has asked the major donors and others to gather Tuesday for a speech following the South Dakota and Montana primaries.
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  #1020 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2008, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandgk View Post



This is where Clinton has asked the major donors and others to gather Tuesday for a speech following the South Dakota and Montana primaries.
Yep. There's a place accross the street from there where you can sell your plasma.
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