Global Warming (was 'Smoking gun' report to say global warming is here.)

[buckeyegrad]

How many times are these arguments going to get recycled on here!

[BayBuck]

Originally Posted by Brewtus

If God gave you the ability to think, reason, study and use logic wouldn't you also believe that he would want you to use those abilities? There is overwhelming evidence indicating that a global flood never occurred so God either deliberately planted false evidence (geological, fossils, DNA, etc.) to deceive humans into believing that Noah and a global flood never happened, or Noah and a global flood never did happen and was used only as a parable in the Bible. Now from what I understand, the Bible does not describe God as deceptive, untruthful or deceitful so I'd prefer to use my God-given ability of skepticism over blind faith.

So are you saying God wants us all to be geologists/scientists? Use all the logic you want, you're never going to definitively prove/disprove that ancient flood ("overwhelming evidence" of a non-event?), and I'm going to rely more on my relationship with God through the Bible to determine the truths that are ultimately most important to me.

[JoJaBuckeye]

Originally Posted by Brewtus

I will repeat again, the story of Noah's Flood in the Bible is a myth. There is not one shred of evidence supporting a global flood or Noah collecting a sample of every species that has ever lived on Earth over the last few billion years. And yes, the Bible does infer that the animals were mature adults: Genesis 7:2: "Take with you seven of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and two of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate." which indicates that the animals were at sexual maturity. If eggs were collected why doesn't the Bible state that or at least say "a male and female" or "a male and its future mate"? I don't deny that there are many flood stories that have been told throughout history, but most civilizations settle near rivers or coastal locations where occasional cataclysmic localized flooding is common. The same thing happens today (Mississippi river flooding in the 1990's, Katrina, etc.).


Please cite your sources so I may properly respond otherwise you're just expressing an opinion without fact.


I'm not sure what your point is here. So you agree that CO2 levels are at the highest levels in the history of mankind?

1. Yes, there is evidence. Just not proof. The historian mentioned, evidence of marine life on EVERY mountain/mountain range in the world, the aforementioned prevalence of a flood epoch in every culture, and the fact that the closer to the Middle East you track those ancient flood epochs, the closer they resemble the biblical account.

2. Taking mates does not necessarily mean the animal has reached sexual maturity or even adulthood. It only means that the animal pairs either HAVE or WILL mature as each other's mates.

3. I never said eggs were collected. The point is that after hatching, a huge dinosaur would be the same size as the egg it just hatched from.

4. When Noah built his ark he was mocked. Apparently from the lack of any major rain and/or the idea of building an ark on dry ground. But the dimensions given have been demonstrated to be that of a seaworthy craft able to weather high seas while having ample cargo space.

5. Point taken. The African volcano referred to does not appear on any of the web sites I visited. Will get back to you. But the effects of Tambora make my point for me.

6. The point is that even if CO2 levels are at their highest, so what? It's still within the comfort level to the animal kingdom. You could double the current level of atmospheric CO2 and you'd still have to explain the shrinking polar ice on Mars. To the best of my knowledge, there are no manufacturing plants or SUVs on Mars.

[BuckeyeMike80]

Originally Posted by buckeyegrad

How many times are these arguments going to get recycled on here!

I'm guessing that's a statement and not a question, right?

[buckeyegrad]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeMike80

I'm guessing that's a statement and not a question, right?

Yes, it was a statement.

I have argued ad nauseum against the secular fundamentalists on this site for the last two+ years, and it is the same thing over and over again. Anything that doesn't fit their paradigm will be dismissed and no amount of evidence or logic will allow for other interpretations to be brought to the table for discussion.

[Brewtus]

Originally Posted by JoJaBuckeye

1. Yes, there is evidence. Just not proof. The historian mentioned, evidence of marine life on EVERY mountain/mountain range in the world, the aforementioned prevalence of a flood epoch in every culture, and the fact that the closer to the Middle East you track those ancient flood epochs, the closer they resemble the biblical account.

Evidence of marine life on mountaintops is explained by plate tectonics and mountain formation, not a global flood. The way the fossil record is sorted shows that species evolved and died out over hundreds of millions of years and were deposited in a consistent progression throughout the world. A global flood would leave a conglomerate of all species jumbled together in the same rock strata and we don't find this anywhere in the fossil record.

Originally Posted by JoJaBuckeye

2. Taking mates does not necessarily mean the animal has reached sexual maturity or even adulthood. It only means that the animal pairs either HAVE or WILL mature as each other's mates.

As is typical in the Bible, wording is so vague that it can be interpreted in many different ways. I've often wondered that if God really wanted to make a definitive statement to mankind, why didn't He say exactly what He meant so that his words could never be misinterpreted? (That's rhetorical so there's no need to answer)

Originally Posted by JoJaBuckeye

3. I never said eggs were collected. The point is that after hatching, a huge dinosaur would be the same size as the egg it just hatched from.

And how were they cared for after hatching if there were no adults around? How did they learn to fend for themselves and stalk prey after they got off of the ark? And what did the carnivores eat then, other species from the Ark? The questions that arise from attempting to put every species in history onto the ark are endless.

Originally Posted by JoJaBuckeye

4. When Noah built his ark he was mocked. Apparently from the lack of any major rain and/or the idea of building an ark on dry ground. But the dimensions given have been demonstrated to be that of a seaworthy craft able to weather high seas while having ample cargo space.

I'll accept that a large ark could be built and would probably be seaworthy, but there is no way it could have held every single species that has ever existed on this earth. We're talking millions of species here from all different climates that all require specialized diets, fresh food, ventilation, sanitation, exercise, care, etc. It's simply not possible for a crew of 8 to take care of and feed millions of animals.

Originally Posted by JoJaBuckeye

5. Point taken. The African volcano referred to does not appear on any of the web sites I visited. Will get back to you. But the effects of Tambora make my point for me.

Okay, but Tambora was a temporary event that settled out of the atmosphere after a year. Humans continue to pump CO2 and other greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere at such a fast rate that have resulted in levels not seen in over 600,000 years.

Originally Posted by JoJaBuckeye

6. The point is that even if CO2 levels are at their highest, so what? It's still within the comfort level to the animal kingdom. You could double the current level of atmospheric CO2 and you'd still have to explain the shrinking polar ice on Mars. To the best of my knowledge, there are no manufacturing plants or SUVs on Mars.

I've never stated that life on this planet is in jeopardy of extinction; life will go on if/when the planet warms. It's an issue of having the ability to save millions of lives, minimize flooding of coastal cities and avoiding an economic crisis but instead denying this problem exists and instead doing nothing about it. I don't have children and don't believe in an afterlife, so in the end I guess the future of humanity doesn't really matter to me. But for those of you with children and grandchildren I hope some day they don't ask you why you didn't do anything about global warming when you had the opportunity and where told it would effect their future.

[Taosman]

Any account or story from the time 2000 years ago must be taken with great skepticism.
Very little writing from the time survives.
Even the great Josephus was just retailing st