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Political Conversation and Debate This forum is not a temporary one. It will exist up to, and after the presidential elections. Some people want to talk or even argue politics, other's don't. Let's see if we can apply some reason and understanding to the debate.

 
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  #271 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2008, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'BusNative View Post


Can we do that? That would be sweet.
Sure, click "Start New Thread"

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandgk View Post
And another thing that [censored]es me off ...


Yeah, that guy [censored]es me off.
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  #272 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2008, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve19 View Post
One of the strongest values of older people is the desire to leave a legacy. They see the entry into Iraq as part of an old rubric, a tried and trusted pattern of behavior that won World War II and ended communism. They see it and their role in it very simplistically and ignore those pesky problems like Vietnam in between. In terms of jobs and growth and negotiation, I think that they are more likely to see the world as a zero sum game. Jobs going to India are one less job in America instead of outsourcing an uncompetitive part of the firm in order to save the remaining jobs and the brand. They do not understand the unfolding world economy or have the risk seeking attitudes to grab the entrpreneurial nettle.
This is one area where I think Obama has a genuine chance to really make an impact with the older voters. He needs to emphasize leaving a better world for children/grandchildren. The Bush years were very short-sited, pawn off the debt on the future. I think most older voters would be captured by a message that says we can make things a little better now, but your kids and grandkids will benefit greatly from the change we bring now. It is a generation that has always been willing to sacrifice. Obama has the pieces (restructure taxes, improve the environment, secure social security, implement a "fair trade policy" that protects American jobs, repair foreign relations). He needs to sell this as leaving a legacy for future generations.
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  #273 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2008, 05:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandgk View Post
And another thing that [censored]es me off ...

That has to be the biggest roach clip I ever saw. Is Andy Rooney gettting down on that doobie?
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  #274 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2008, 03:27 PM
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The comment regarding Iraq redeployment timing has become big news... I think I understand what McCain's point is, but, seriously, why does his campaign think that town hall settings are better for him? He says alot of... stupid? imprudent? things. (skip ahead to 6:15 so you dont have to witness the Matt Lauer blowjob)

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  #275 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2008, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuckFich06 View Post
This is one area where I think Obama has a genuine chance to really make an impact with the older voters. He needs to emphasize leaving a better world for children/grandchildren. The Bush years were very short-sited, pawn off the debt on the future. I think most older voters would be captured by a message that says we can make things a little better now, but your kids and grandkids will benefit greatly from the change we bring now. It is a generation that has always been willing to sacrifice. Obama has the pieces (restructure taxes, improve the environment, secure social security, implement a "fair trade policy" that protects American jobs, repair foreign relations). He needs to sell this as leaving a legacy for future generations.
Obama's been reading my posts again...

Political Punch

Quote:
At a town hall meeting in Kaukauna, Wisc., Thursday afternoon, amidst questions about health care and the economy, a young man said he had a question for Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, and Obama should "please be as intellectual or spiritual as you would like."
"Well this is a lot of pressure," Obama said to laugher.
"My question is: what does life mean to you?" the young man asked.
"Oh goodness," Obama said, a bit taken aback. "What does life mean to me?"
He stammered a bit as he contemplated the enormity of the query.
"Well, uh, I, uh?"
The crowd of 2,500 supporters at Kaukauna High School * laughed with apparent sympathy.
"I don't know where to start on a question like that," Obama said. "Let me just say a couple things. Right now what I think about most is my daughters who are 10 and 7," he said, referring to his daughters Malia and Sasha. "And not that I'm biased but they are perfect in all ways."
To the young man who asked the question, Obama said, "when I was your age, I thought life was all about me. And how do make my way in the world and how do I become successful and how do I get the things that I want. And right now life for me revolves around those two girls. And I think about what kind of a place am I leaving them."
And with that, came the able pivot.
"Michelle and I have been incredibly blessed," Obama said. "As long as God's looking over, my girls are going to be OK." They go to "great schools, will be able to afford college, are in good health and will be well cared for if they ever get sick.
But the country and the world they're living in, Obama said, needs work.
"Are they living in a county where there's a huge gap between a few who are wealthy and a whole bunch of people who are struggling every day?" Obama asked. "Are they living in a county that is still divided by race?
"Are they living in a country where because they're girls they don't have as much opportunity as boys do?
"Are they living in a country where we are hated around the world because we don't cooperate with other countries as effectively as we should? Are they living in a country where they are threatened by terrorism and a nuclear explosion could happen in a major American city? Are they living in a country in which because of a lack of sensible energy we are not only ransoming our future, but we're also threatening the very livelihood of the planet?"
Obama continued, "what life means to me is that every day I wake up trying to figure out how can I secure their futures and the futures of all children, ...How can I make sure that we are giving a planet and a country to them that is better than the one we got? And, you know ,so I guess what I've discovered is that life doesn't count for much unless you're somehow giving yourself to something larger to yourself. And that's part of my Christian faith. It's also part of the reason I am running for president of the United States."
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  #276 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2008, 10:44 PM
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  #277 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2008, 10:55 PM
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Olbermann's latest: MSNBC Video Player

or if you prefer text: Olbermann: McCain should know better - Countdown with Keith Olbermann - MSNBC.com

Quote:
Tonight, a Special Comment on Sen. John McCain's conclusion that it's "not too important" when American forces come home from Iraq.

Thoughts, offered more in sorrow, than in anger. For two full days now, the Senator and his supporters have been outraged at what they see as the subtraction of context from this extraordinary remark.
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  #278 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2008, 01:00 PM
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Colbert's John McCain Green Screen Challange:

John McCain's Green Screen Challenge | The Colbert Report | Comedy Central

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  #279 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2008, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuckFich06 View Post

When it comes to Olbermann, I'll take option three: shove icepicks through my ear drums to be followed by lighting myself on fire so as to avoid having to listen to the loon.
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  #280 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2008, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckeyegrad View Post
When it comes to Olbermann, I'll take option three: shove icepicks through my ear drums to be followed by lighting myself on fire so as to avoid having to listen to the loon.
Please don't do that, grad. We love ya! (Though the "fiery crash" component of your proposed behavior is oddly appealing ...)
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  #281 (permalink)  
Old 06-19-2008, 09:43 PM
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On his show tonight, Dan Abrams drew attention to a quote from John McCain in an interview with Sean Hannity that flew under the radar:

RealClearPolitics - Articles - John McCain's Full Hour on "Hannity & Colmes"

Quote:
HANNITY: -- and then I understand you didn't get any medical help for nine days. You spent two years of this five-and-a-half-year period in solitary confinement. What does that do to a person, to spend that much time in solitary confinement?

MCCAIN: I think it makes you a better person. Obviously, it makes you love America. I really didn't love America until I was deprived of her company, but probably the most important thing about it, Sean, is that I was privileged to have the opportunity to serve in the company of heroes.
In light of all of the political hay that the repubs have made out of Michelle Obama saying that seeing such enthusiasm in this election cycle had caused her to be really proud of America for the first time in her adult life, I think it is worth giving a second look. Does anybody think McCain didn't love America before he was a POW? No. It's interesting that both McCain and Obama used the qualifier "really" in their statements... although Michelle's comments are oft repeated without the "really." It's interesting how when lines fit or don't fit particular scripts the are or are not noticed. Obama's comment were pounced upon almost immediately, while McCain's comment wasn't noticed for 3 months.
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  #282 (permalink)  
Old 06-19-2008, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuckFich06 View Post
On his show tonight, Dan Abrams drew attention to a quote from John McCain in an interview with Sean Hannity that flew under the radar:

RealClearPolitics - Articles - John McCain's Full Hour on "Hannity & Colmes"

In light of all of the political hay that the repubs have made out of Michelle Obama saying that seeing such enthusiasm in this election cycle had caused her to be really proud of America for the first time in her adult life, I think it is worth giving a second look. Does anybody think McCain didn't love America before he was a POW? No. It's interesting that both McCain and Obama used the qualifier "really" in their statements... although Michelle's comments are oft repeated without the "really." It's interesting how when lines fit or don't fit particular scripts the are or are not noticed. Obama's comment were pounced upon almost immediately, while McCain's comment wasn't noticed for 3 months.
There is a difference between really loving America for the first time, and really being proud of it.
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  #283 (permalink)  
Old 06-19-2008, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigballin2987 View Post
There is a difference between really loving America for the first time, and really being proud of it.
Hmmm... I would say its debatable which one is better/worse. I've pretty much always loved my country, but I've not been terribly proud of it these last several years.
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  #284 (permalink)  
Old 06-19-2008, 10:20 PM
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The Obama campaign will likely not touch that quote, and that'd be the smart move. Outside of the canned line about McCain being a hero and respecting his service, I would be shocked if they said anything about his service in the military, imprisonment and torture unless they are:
  1. Pointing out the perceived hypocrisy of not condemning torture by the United States when he himself was tortured mercilessly as a POW.
  2. Refuting McCain's BS assertion that military service is a prerequisite for being able to speak with authority about foreign policy or the failures of the current president's foreign policy.
I just don't see any way that talking about McCain's quote could be a winner for Obama. And putting aside my support for Obama, this is not the kind of thing I want the candidates to be talking about. There are times when "spin" is pure BS, and there are rare occasions where it is perhaps closer to the truth than what was originally said. I think that's the case for both quotes. I know what each of them meant to say - though they may have said it in a clumsy way - and I don't fault them for the sentiment they are trying to convey.
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  #285 (permalink)  
Old 06-19-2008, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'BusNative View Post
Hmmm... I would say its debatable which one is better/worse. I've pretty much always loved my country, but I've not been terribly proud of it these last several years.
I guess it depends on how you interpret it. I personally don't think either of them deserve the scrunity, FWIW.

I think he was trying to say once he left America he realized that he loved America, and Mrs. Obama's seemed to be hinting that she was never proud of America until her husband's run, which is a bit dramatic. But again, I'm sure they both were just trying to help themselves or their significant other and their quotes were over-analyzed.
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