Arizona Senator John McCain (official)

[CookyPuss]

Originally Posted by bigballin2987

No, he is wrong about the Paki government even letting us hunt for bin Laden, much less helping us.

Need a specific quote or citation. I don't think he ever said anything approaching what you are suggesting. He said IF we had actionable intelligence and they weren't willing to act, we should go after him. I don't see how that is a gaffe.

Here is the actual quote:

"If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will," Obama said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/domes...32206420070801

['BusNative]

Originally Posted by MuckFich06

Here's the mash-up:

YouTube - TPMtv: Dazed and Confused

This reel makes Dubya look like a genius...

Edit: and thanks for clarifying, ballin, I just didn't know what you meant...

[Flocka]

Originally Posted by MuckFich06

Need a specific quote or citation. I don't think he ever said anything approaching what you are suggesting. He said IF we had actionable intelligence and they weren't willing to act, we should go after him. I don't see how that is a gaffe.

Here is the actual quote:


Tough talk on Pakistan from Obama | U.S. | Reuters

It's his defense to his earlier statements.
Obama Backtracks on Bombing Pakistan ? Reality Check

['BusNative]

Back to McCain...

McCain Adviser Was Lobbyist for Georgia - WSJ.com

McCain Adviser Was Lobbyist for Georgia

By MARY JACOBY
August 11, 2008; Page A5

John McCain's top foreign-policy adviser, Randy Scheunemann, is a leading expert on U.S.-allied Georgia -- and was a paid lobbyist for the former Soviet republic until March, in the run-up to what has become a major battle between Georgia and Russia.

Democratic rival Barack Obama's presidential campaign was quick to try to paint Mr. Scheunemann's dual roles as a conflict of interest after Sen. McCain swiftly took Georgia's side in the dispute, and cited it as evidence that Sen. McCain is "ensconced in a lobbyist culture," as Obama spokesman Hari Sevugan told reporters over the weekend.

But given the rapid escalation of the fighting, and the fact that Georgia is being viewed as a victim of its neighbor's aggression, Mr. Scheunemann's ties to the small nation and its pro-Western Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili may look less like a weakness and more like a strength in the first foreign-policy crisis of the general election campaign...

[CookyPuss]

Originally Posted by bigballin2987

It's his defense to his earlier statements.
Obama Backtracks on Bombing Pakistan ? Reality Check

"I did not say that we would immediately go in unilaterally. What I said was that we have to work with [Pakistan?s President Pervez] Musharraf."

"If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won?t act, we will."

I don't see a contradiction here. The original statement (2nd one) is stronger, but he's saying he will take action if they are not willing. I would assume that finding out that they aren't willing would mean that we are working with them and communicating that we would be taking action. I suppose the gaffe is that he didn't actually say we would work with Musharraf.

But if you want to talk about Pakistan gaffes on this subject...

YouTube - McCain on OBL: To the Gates of Hell,...

I guess the difference is that hell isn't a sovereign nation?

[DaytonBuck]

Originally Posted by 'BusNative

Back to McCain...

McCain Adviser Was Lobbyist for Georgia - WSJ.com

What's the problem? Both McCain and the Obama campaign have people that worked at lobbyists at one time. McCain issued a forceful, direct statement sticking up for a US Ally and a democracy against Russian aggression.

['BusNative]

Originally Posted by DaytonBuck

What's the problem? Both McCain and the Obama campaign have people that worked at lobbyists at one time. McCain issued a forceful, direct statement sticking up for a US Ally and a democracy against Russian aggression.

I didn't say there was a problem... it was just interesting and fairly relevant. Who are the ex-lobbyists working for the Obama campaign?

[Flocka]

Originally Posted by MuckFich06

"I did not say that we would immediately go in unilaterally. What I said was that we have to work with [Pakistan?s President Pervez] Musharraf."

"If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won?t act, we will."

I don't see a contradiction here. The original statement (2nd one) is stronger, but he's saying he will take action if they are not willing. I would assume that finding out that they aren't willing would mean that we are working with them and communicating that we would be taking action. I suppose the gaffe is that he didn't actually say we would work with Musharraf.

But if you want to talk about Pakistan gaffes on this subject...

YouTube - McCain on OBL: To the Gates of Hell, But Not to Pakistan

I guess the difference is that hell isn't a sovereign nation?

Obama Backtracks on Bombing Pakistan ? Reality Check

[DaytonBuck]

Originally Posted by 'BusNative

I didn't say there was a problem... it was just interesting and fairly relevant. Who are the ex-lobbyists working for the Obama campaign?

Jim Demers
Moses Mercado
Teal Baker

Three political aides on Sen. Barack Obama?s (D-Ill.) payroll were registered lobbyists for dozens of corporations, including Wal-Mart, British Petroleum and Lockheed Martin, while they received payments from his campaign, according to public documents.


The presence of political operatives with long client lists on Obama?s campaign contrasts with his long-held stand of campaigning against the influence of special interests. Obama has even refused to accept contributions from lobbyists or political action committees (PACs).

The Hill

[CookyPuss]

Originally Posted by bigballin2987

Obama Backtracks on Bombing Pakistan ? Reality Check

That's a reach of an analysis, try the FactCheck.org story it references:

Sen. Barack Obama attempted to revise his own earlier remarks about invading Pakistan, claiming: "I did not say that we would immediately go in unilaterally. What I said was that we have to work with [Pakistan?s President Pervez] Musharraf." But the record shows Obama's original remarks were much tougher than that.

Again, there is no direct contradiction in his statements. Rather than actually clarifying his previous statement, he tried to claim he said words he didn't actually say. He didn't change his position and he has maintained that he would be willing to strike on actionable intelligence if Pakistan refuses. This is the same position that the Bush admin currently is following.

BTW, if McCain "knows" how to catch Bin Laden, why won't he tell Bush how to do it?

John McCain: I Know How To Catch Bin Laden

[Flocka]

Originally Posted by MuckFich06

That's a reach of an analysis, try the FactCheck.org story it references:



Again, there is no direct contradiction in his statements. Rather than actually clarifying his previous statement, he tried to claim he said words he didn't actually say. He didn't change his position and he has maintained that he would be willing to strike on actionable intelligence if Pakistan refuses. This is the same position that the Bush admin currently is following.

BTW, if McCain "knows" how to catch Bin Laden, why won't he tell Bush how to do it?

John McCain: I Know How To Catch Bin Laden

Clarifying by saying he didn't say something he did.

[CookyPuss]

Originally Posted by bigballin2987

Clarifying by saying he didn't say something he did.

Good answer.

[sandgk]

Originally Posted by 'BusNative

I didn't say there was a problem... it was just interesting and fairly relevant. Who are the ex-lobbyists working for the Obama campaign?

Originally Posted by DaytonBuck

Jim Demers
Moses Mercado
Teal Baker



The Hill

That article is from December '07. What I find interesting is the title - "Lobbyists on '08 Obama Payroll" that means The Hill is asserting they are getting paid.


A swift review of disbursements to those names for the most recent reported month (June '08) shows no payments made, nor debts owed to any of the above, nor their respective corporate fronts. (Baker - Podesta Group, Moses Mercado, Ogilvy Gp nor for Demers).


Is there other proof you can provide that these ex-lobbyists are currently being compensated by the Obama campaign, currently on the payroll?

If not, at best The Hill is left with the assertion that one or other person is providing advice - gratis.

Which is a step or two above Charlie Black, who actively consulted for clients whose aims contradict McCain's own platform, all while raiding the Straight Talk Express, IMHO.

EDIT - Worth mentioning, in light of the terrible events unfolding in the Georgian Republic, that Randy Scheunemann remained a paid consultant / lobbyist for Georgia through March 1 '08 - even while acting as the public face of McCain's foreign policy positions. Which campaign position he holds to this day.

[DaytonBuck]

Originally Posted by sandgk

That article is from December '07. What I find interesting is the title - "Lobbyists on '08 Obama Payroll" that means The Hill is asserting they are getting paid.


A swift review of disbursements to those names for the most recent reported month (June '08) shows no payments made, nor debts owed to any of the above, nor their respective corporate fronts. (Baker - Podesta Group, Moses Mercado, Ogilvy Gp nor for Demers).


Is there other proof you can provide that these ex-lobbyists are currently being compensated by the Obama campaign, currently on the payroll?

If not, at best The Hill is left with the assertion that one or other person is providing advice - gratis.

Which is a step or two above Charlie Black, who actively consulted for clients whose aims contradict McCain's own platform, all while raiding the Straight Talk Express, IMHO.

EDIT - Worth mentioning, in light of the terrible events unfolding in the Georgian Republic, that Randy Scheunemann remained a paid consultant / lobbyist for Georgia through March 1 '08 - even while acting as the public face of McCain's foreign policy positions. Which campaign position he holds to this day.

Tom Daschle is a national co-chair of Obama's campaign. Obama, McCain or any presidential candidate running a serious campaign will some ex-lobbyists on staff.

[CookyPuss]

Originally Posted by DaytonBuck

Tom Daschle is a national co-chair of Obama's campaign. Obama, McCain or any presidential candidate running a serious campaign will some ex-lobbyists on staff.

One of Obama's chief surrogates, former Senator Tom Daschle, is being talked up as possible chief of staff in an Obama administration. He's currently a "Special Public Policy Advisor" at Alston & Bird, where his duties are described, "as a non-attorney, Senator Daschle focuses his services on advising the firm?s clients on issues related to all aspects of public policy with a particular emphasis on issues related to financial services, health care, energy, telecommunications and taxes. In addition, he advises on trade and international matters." His title may not be "lobbyist ," but when he joined the firm in 2005, NPR described their interview with him this way: "Tom Daschle, the former Democratic leader in the U.S. Senate, discusses politics, the party and his new job as a lobbyist."

UPDATE: I am told that Daschle's contract with Alston & Bird specifically states he will not be involved in any lobbying efforts. I blame those right-wing extremists at NPR for the smear.

The Campaign Spot on National Review Online