Healthcare (official thread)

[Big Papa]

Originally Posted by DaytonBuck

Link

Nice little write up by John Stossel. If universal health care would work I'd be all for it.

I love your source for this link. Next why don't you just quote Sean Hannity or Rush.

[redskinbucksfan]

Originally Posted by Big Papa

I love your source for this link. Next why don't you just quote Sean Hannity or Rush.

Not that you took the time to read it

[DaytonBuck]

Originally Posted by Big Papa

I love your source for this link. Next why don't you just quote Sean Hannity or Rush.

I really want everyone to have healthcare but I haven't seen anything that would suggest universal healthcare wouldn't lower our standard of care. I'm interested in seeing any information to the contrary.

[Taosman]

Hillary Clinton's Universal Health Care Plan Panned
By Melanie Hunter
CNSNews.com Senior Editor
September 17, 2007

(CNSNews.com) - Sen. Hillary Clinton's (D-N.Y.) universal health care plan unveiled Monday in Iowa was panned by critics, one of whom said "any plan that tries to achieve universal coverage without addressing the rising costs of health care is bound to fail." Supporters, many in the Democratic Party, however, commended the plan.

Clinton's proposal, estimated to cost about $110 billion a year, would provide coverage for 47 million uninsured Americans through federal subsidies and tax hikes by rolling back some of President Bush's tax cuts.

"I believe everyone-every man, woman, and child-should have quality, affordable health care in America," said Clinton, adding that her plan is "not government-run."

Clinton's plan also apparently ends discrimination on pre-existing health conditions, expands Medicaid and the State Children's Health Insurance Program.

It is similar to a plan by Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards, which includes an "individual mandate," requiring everyone to have health insurance - just as most states require drivers to purchase auto insurance.

"This is not government run," said Clinton. "There will be no more bureaucracy. This plan expands personal choice and increases competition to keep costs down. These are new times and this is a new plan."

[Best Buckeye]

Hillary Clinton's Universal Health Care Plan is dangling the carrot in front of the horse.

[Taosman]

"Americans have enough entitlements already. Why create a new class of undeserving, unthankful saps."

Is ekeen trying to top tibs in his vile rhetoric?

[Big Papa]

Originally Posted by Taosman

"Americans have enough entitlements already. Why create a new class of undeserving, unthankful saps."

Is ekeen trying to top tibs in his vile rhetoric?

Unfortunately he has plenty of followers around here.

[sandgk]

Originally Posted by Taosman

"This is not government run," said Clinton. "There will be no more bureaucracy. This plan expands personal choice and increases competition to keep costs down. These are new times and this is a new plan."

That there underlined is the real reason why this fails in practice.

To be better than cost neutral a Universal Health Care plan must drive down the percentage of costs associated with administrative fees. There is already FAR too much bureaucracy. Clinton is simply taking a politically correct version of Universal Care and dressing up that pig with bows and lipstick.

It is a failed plan that would, I absolutely guarantee you, cost us us more, because it is weak and insufficiently bold.

I don't like it, not one little bit.

[Taosman]

It will be interesting to hear what the details of the plan are.
I wonder how much she would gain from this politically?
Or would it be a campaign breaker?

I would love to see Gov. Bill Richardson get the nomination.
He has been a fiscally responsible Governor and I think he would make an excellent President.

[sandgk]

There is plenty out there on what Clinton wants to do viz-a-viz health-care. "No more bureaucracy" is pretty clear political speech to the monied HMO and Pharma interests - "I am not going to screw with you" - spineless, but then again should we be surprised? Clinton, regardless of the failed experiment of the first Clinton Administration, has consistently taken money from the health-care industry while occupying her seat as a NY Senator.

Voting for Clinton may not be voting your interests.

[Big Papa]

Originally Posted by sandgk

There is plenty out there on what Clinton wants to do viz-a-viz health-care. "No more bureaucracy" is pretty clear political speech to the monied HMO and Pharma interests - "I am not going to screw with you" - spineless, but then again should we be surprised? Clinton, regardless of the failed experiment of the first Clinton Administration, has consistently taken money from the health-care industry while occupying her seat as a NY Senator.

Voting for Clinton may not be voting your interests.

In all seriousness, has any GOP candidate come up with any plans outlining how they would deal with problem of so many millions of Americans that do not have any kind of health coverage? I have heard estimates of Americans without health care to be between 40-90 million and many of them ARE working full time. People make jokes that they want to "quit their jobs so our tax money can provide them health coverage", but what about the hard working Americans who work their asses off to provide for their families, but do not get the option of health care benefits? How many of these families can afford to pay for private insurance? There are too many people, espeically kids who don't get the care they need because of situations like this. I can't see how we can just sit around and do nothing. I remember a speech by a very wise Republican who said this is a "government of the people, by the people, for the people." I don't see it being wrong for the government to help take care of their own. Seems like we should do a little more of this and a little less of taking care of the world's problems.

[BuckeyeMike80]

Originally Posted by Big Papa

In all seriousness, has any GOP candidate come up with any plans outlining how they would deal with problem of so many millions of Americans that do not have any kind of health coverage? I have heard estimates of Americans without health care to be between 40-90 million and many of them ARE working full time. People make jokes that they want to "quit their jobs so our tax money can provide them health coverage", but what about the hard working Americans who work their asses off to provide for their families, but do not get the option of health care benefits? How many of these families can afford to pay for private insurance? There are too many people, espeically kids who don't get the care they need because of situations like this. I can't see how we can just sit around and do nothing. I remember a speech by a very wise Republican who said this is a "government of the people, by the people, for the people." I don't see it being wrong for the government to help take care of their own. Seems like we should do a little more of this and a little less of taking care of the world's problems.

There's the catch-22...

This government won't be able to afford healthcare for everyone given how the costs of healthcare are getting higher and higher.

If you want a healthcare plan for everyone, fine, but first figure out a way to get the costs under control or you end up both breaking the program and end up not helping the very people you want to help out.

Essentially no one in the current political climate has a plan to effectively do both. The GOP people want people to believe they will curb the costs, the Democrats want people to believe that they'll be able to provide a revenue neutral way to provide healthcare to everyone. It's not just a Republican or a Democratic thing as much as you'd like it to be, it's on both sides. Both are pandering, both are making promises they have absolutely no hope on following through on and both have no [censored]in clue how to actually present a solution to the problem at hand.

I got news for both sides, unless it's a collaborative effort (and it won't be), neither will happen in the near-term.

[Big Papa]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeMike80

There's the catch-22...

This government won't be able to afford healthcare for everyone given how the costs of healthcare are getting higher and higher.

If you want a healthcare plan for everyone, fine, but first figure out a way to get the costs under control or you end up both breaking the program and end up not helping the very people you want to help out.

Essentially no one in the current political climate has a plan to effectively do both. The GOP people want people to believe they will curb the costs, the Democrats want people to believe that they'll be able to provide a revenue neutral way to provide healthcare to everyone. It's not just a Republican or a Democratic thing as much as you'd like it to be, it's on both sides. Both are pandering, both are making promises they have absolutely no hope on following through on and both have no [censored]in clue how to actually present a solution to the problem at hand.

I got news for both sides, unless it's a collaborative effort (and it won't be), neither will happen in the near-term.

If it has to be a collaboration, it'll never happen. If we could get the two sides to work together on where to get lunch from I would be shocked.

I am definitely open to hear all opinions on this issue. I just don't see this as another "stay the course" issue.

[sandgk]

Originally Posted by Big Papa

In all seriousness, has any GOP candidate come up with any plans outlining how they would deal with problem of so many millions of Americans that do not have any kind of health coverage?

Not really. (Mitt notwithstanding).

[Big Papa]

Originally Posted by sandgk

Not really. (Mitt notwithstanding).

Figured as much, but I do agree with BuckeyeMike, it would be nice to have some sort of collaborative effort. Not that this is anything more than a pipe dream, given the current state of affairs in D.C.