Blackwater..No Oversight

[BuckeyeMike80]

Originally Posted by Taosman

Aren't we being just a little bit silly?
Who here(other than possibly Muck) has any pertinent knowledge that could compromise said military personnel?

Honestly Taos, any offhand comment about any minor thing could help people who would do these people harm. If you had a clearance of any type, you would have this hammered into your brain. I take it seriously as does Muck and probably others.

But go ahead and think of it as "silly"....

[Taosman]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeMike80

Honestly Taos, any offhand comment about any minor thing could help people who would do these people harm. If you had a clearance of any type, you would have this hammered into your brain. I take it seriously as does Muck and probably others.

But go ahead and think of it as "silly"....

And you and others rail about "liberal" "paranoia"? sarcasm

[Taosman]

Elected officials must always be accountable to the people!

[Best Buckeye]

Originally Posted by Taosman

And you and others rail about "liberal" "paranoia"? sarcasm

Thats because we all know that liberal paranois actually exists, where there is no such thing as conservative paranoia.

[sandgk]

Originally Posted by Best Buckeye

Thats because we all know that liberal paranois actually exists, where there is no such thing as conservative paranoia.

You're living in Da Nile (not a river).

[BuckeyeMike80]

Originally Posted by Taosman

And you and others rail about "liberal" "paranoia"? sarcasm

When it comes to security, these people are paid to be paranoid.

But you knew that right?

[Taosman]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeMike80

When it comes to security, these people are paid to be paranoid.

But you knew that right?

Nice try at diversion.

But, the point is there is no oversight of what they do.
And, their actions are detremental to winning the hearts and minds of Iraqis!
Winning the war.

[Gatorubet]

Originally Posted by Best Buckeye

Thats because we all know that liberal paranois actually exists, where there is no such thing as conservative paranoia.

"Chief Justice Al Gore administers the Oath of Office to President Hillary Clinton"

[BuckeyeMike80]

Originally Posted by Taosman

Nice try at diversion.

But, the point is there is no oversight of what they do.
And, their actions are detremental to winning the hearts and minds of Iraqis!
Winning the war.

Try again when you stop kicking and screaming Taos....

[DaytonBuck]

Originally Posted by Taosman

And you and others rail about "liberal" "paranoia"? sarcasm

I think the article about GMO dragonflys fits the definition of liberal paranoia.

[ORD_Buckeye]

Originally Posted by AKAKBUCK

As for the "hang them all"/war profiteers/mercenary comments... I think its pretty difficult to throw around accusations like that in a country that has a professional military in the first place... Uncle Sam is still writing everyone's check... and... hey... they are easier to downsize.... and... every company that is there is a war profiteer... hang them too? What about companies that make antiterrorist products? War profiteers?

The "hang them all" comment was admittedly heat of the moment hyperbole. The mercenary and war profiteer comments less so.

As for calling these contractors mercenaries, I won't make any apologies or modifications because that is what they are--private soldiers contracted by the government. While they might once have been US military personnel, that was in a previous life. Today, they're ultimate loyalty is to the the for-profit corporation to which they're employed.

While it's true that not every military contractor can be considered a war profiteer, that doesn't mean that war profiteers do not exist. There's just been too much smoke of unbid contracts and the outsourcing of traditional military/government operations to more costly/less efficient private companies in this war for there not to be ANY fire. Some of it, undoubtedly, was the result more of an ideological rigidity to privatize everything in sight than actual malfeasance. Some of it, however, is the result of pure crony-capitalism more worthy of a Central American banana republic than of the United States government in a time of war. Not every company is a war profiteer and not every motive or practice in awarding these contracts was criminal, but I do believe that in many instances the conduct of these companies and, most distressingly, the government officials in charge does rise to the level of criminal war profiteering and, as such, should be prosecuted one day.

[Muck]

Originally Posted by ORD_Buckeye

Today, they're ultimate loyalty is to the the for-profit corporation to which they're employed.

Handy note of the day folks:

Having an opinion and knowing what in the hell you are talking about are often inversely proportional to one another.

On a completely unrelated note:

I would like to thank ORD for telling me where my loyalty and that of men that I've worked closely with lies. Clearly his experience on the matter of my loyalty is greater than my own.

[ORD_Buckeye]

Originally Posted by Muck

Handy note of the day folks:

Having an opinion and knowing what in the hell you are talking about are often inversely proportional to one another.

On a completely unrelated note:

I would like to thank ORD for telling me where my loyalty and that of men that I've worked closely with lies. Clearly his experience on the matter of my loyalty is greater than my own.

You're welcome. A mercenary can be the biggest flag waver this side of Major Frank Burns, but it doesn't negate the fact that a private for-profit corporation is the source of both his livelihood and chain of command. The US government has no direct control over these men other than relying on their best intentions and hoping for the best. Give it up already. Even the administration, which has yet to admit a single fault or error these past seven years, is racing to distance itself from Blackwater.

Handy note of the day #2: Being a grunt on the ground doesn't give one any insight or knowledge into any issues beyond those related to being a grunt on the ground. It is not an automatic passport to an understanding of any of the larger political, military or diplomatic issues at play. If it were, every grunt would end up a damned general.

As someone who served in our embassies in apartheid era South Africa as well as Eastern Europe, I'm damned glad that it was during an era when the protection of those embassies was not outsourced to politically connected, no-bid contract mercenary firms.

[Muck]

Originally Posted by ORD_Buckeye

The US government has no direct control over these men other than relying on their best intentions and hoping for the best.[/i]

The Brigadier General I reported to directly during my last trip in the sand box would be surprised to learn that did not have direct control over myself and my team.

Handy note of the day #2: Being a grunt on the ground doesn't give one any insight or knowledge into any issues beyond those related to being a grunt on the ground. It is not an automatic passport to an understanding of any of the larger political, military or diplomatic issues at play. If it were, every grunt would end up a damned general.

At least a grunt on the ground is also smart enough to admit when he lacks the information to speak knowledgeably on a topic rather than talking out of his ass.

Give it up already. Even the administration, which has yet to admit a single fault or error these past seven years, is racing to distance itself from Blackwater.

You'd think a political lackey would have a better understanding of how the game is played...but then the guys from State always have been better at looking busy than being useful (other than as a distraction anyways).

As someone who served in our embassies in apartheid era South Africa as well as Eastern Europe, I'm damned glad that it was during an era when the protection of those embassies was not outsourced to politically connected, no-bid contract mercenary firms.

Bully for you.

Of course those embassies were built/fit out by contractors. Their SCIFs designed, installed & serviced by contractors and some supplemental external security was at times*gasp* provided by contractors from those same companies.

Personally if I were seriously worried about the evils of contractors I'd be more concerned about the damage a tech could due to national security via his access to compartmentalized material.

But then again I don't have an axe to grind.

PS - The WPPSI contract (like the vast majority of the contracts awarded) was bid on by at least 3 companies that I am aware of.

[BuckeyeMike80]

Originally Posted by ORD_Buckeye

You're welcome. A mercenary can be the biggest flag waver this side of Major Frank Burns, but it doesn't negate the fact that a private for-profit corporation is the source of both his livelihood and chain of command. The US government has no direct control over these men other than relying on their best intentions and hoping for the best. Give it up already. Even the administration, which has yet to admit a single fault or error these past seven years, is racing to distance itself from Blackwater.

I'm going to tell my boss that and see what he says....nice try though

Handy note of the day #2: Being a grunt on the ground doesn't give one any insight or knowledge into any issues beyond those related to being a grunt on the ground. It is not an automatic passport to an understanding of any of the larger political, military or diplomatic issues at play. If it were, every grunt would end up a damned general.

Interesting....

As someone who served in our embassies in apartheid era South Africa as well as Eastern Europe, I'm damned glad that it was during an era when the protection of those embassies was not outsourced to politically connected, no-bid contract mercenary firms.

Yeah I guess all us mercenairies should be hung eh?