Blackwater..No Oversight

[Taosman]

Having read Muck's valid arguments for use of Blackwater mercs, I think the bigger issue is still our governments finding ways to oversee their operations. And better oversight of monies spent in Iraq in general.

Can anyone deny that it is a bad situation when mercs shoot innocent bystanders during operations? (and don't give me any of that;"it always happens [censored]!)
And it is a big negative toward getting the people(Iraqis) to buy into
what we are trying to accomplish and their own government.

[BrutusBobcat]

A quick question on this, because I don't actually know -- are armed contractors subject to the UCMJ (uniform code of military justice)?

What body would oversee the prosecution of a contractor who violates military law? Are they subject to court-martial? Or is this a situation of Goreian "no controlling legal authority"?

[Taosman]

Blackwater?s Legal Netherworld
Private security contractors are subject to military justice ? or are they?

By Mark Hemingway

In the reams of media coverage surrounding the Blackwater incident last week one curious detail remains virtually unreported. The general theme of the coverage remains that private military contractors are somehow ?above the law,? but almost no media sources have referred to the fact that, as of last fall, contractors are subject to the same to the same Uniform Code of Military Justice that governs U.S. soldiers.


In theory, Blackwater contractors could be court martialed for wrong doing, a prospect that should satisfy all critics who insist that private military companies remain unaccountable. However, even before the change there was no lack of applicable laws to which contractors were subject. The truth is that contractors are not above the law, but rather well within the reach of several different codes and regulations and nobody?s exactly sure how one would go about exacting legal remedies against them should they be needed.
Mark Hemingway on Blackwater on National Review Online=

It would seem Blackwater would come under UCMJ. But, when has any Blackwater employee ever been prosecuted?
I doubt you will ever see that.

[SanAntonioBuck]

AP

Iraq seeking faster Blackwater pullout

BAGHDAD (AP) -- Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki has pressed U.S. Embassy officials in recent meetings to pull the Blackwater USA security firm out of Iraq even before the six-month deadline he initially set, a top aide to the Iraqi leader said Wednesday.

Continued...

[Taosman]

We have always had the ability to push al Qaeda out of areas, we just can't stay and "hold" areas.

[DaytonBuck]

I nominate a more socially conscious company like Ben and Jerry's taking over the Blackwater contract

[Deety]

Originally Posted by DaytonBuck

I nominate a more socially conscious company like Ben and Jerry's taking over the Blackwater contract

Sounds like a sticky situation.

[Taosman]

Blackwater was given a free pass by the White House because of political connections. They blew it by acting like cowboys. It's the friggin wild west over there. Bad for public relations. Bad for the Iraq effort.

[DaytonBuck]

Originally Posted by Taosman

Blackwater was given a free pass by the White House because of political connections. They blew it by acting like cowboys. It's the friggin wild west over there. Bad for public relations. Bad for the Iraq effort.

[Taosman]

Tell us how you really feel, Dayton!

[ORD_Buckeye]

Originally Posted by BrutusBobcat

A quick question on this, because I don't actually know -- are armed contractors subject to the UCMJ (uniform code of military justice)?

What body would oversee the prosecution of a contractor who violates military law? Are they subject to court-martial? Or is this a situation of Goreian "no controlling legal authority"?

Quick answer, No. Gates is pushing strongly for increased DoD control over the mercenaries and sources say that he's willing to take it straight to junior's desk if necessary. What's still under discussion is whether the mercs should be subject to the UCMJ or the rather looser strictures of the Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/17/wa...LPpF7lLO5Jn6yw

Given the pronouncements made on this board, it would seem, to the contrary, that military control over the mercenaries is an issue of considerable contention with the SecDef.

Then again, I could just--as previously accused--be talking out of my ass.

[ekeen]

It's hard to hold a civilian accountable to rules governed by the UCMJ. For instance, if a married civilian contractor from Blackwater went and had and affair with an Iraqi national, he could be punished under the UCMJ for adultery, and possibly be thrown in the brig (jail).

We have had past instances where a commander in chief was guilty for breaking laws under the UCMJ yet he was not punishable for said laws, even though he was the commander in chief.

So, I think there's a hard case to make for UCMJ application here.

[BuckeyeMike80]

Originally Posted by ekeen

It's hard to hold a civilian accountable to rules governed by the UCMJ. For instance, if a married civilian contractor from Blackwater went and had and affair with an Iraqi national, he could be punished under the UCMJ for adultery, and possibly be thrown in the brig (jail).

We have had past instances where a commander in chief was guilty for breaking laws under the UCMJ yet he was not punishable for said laws, even though he was the commander in chief.

So, I think there's a hard case to make for UCMJ application here.

In my experience as a contractor when someone screws up, they lose their position and if any possibility of prosecution exists it is under US CIVIL/FEDERAL law, not Iraq's and not the UCMJ.

Besides Bremer decreed that the Blackwater types were essentially untouchable under Iraqi law back in 2004 I think.....

[Taosman]

I have to completey disagree. If the mercs signed on to do the job, they should be held accountable. They are heavily armed and supposedly well trained. Better trained the most the troops.

And Iraq is to change the Bremer law shortly.............

[BuckeyeMike80]

Originally Posted by Taosman

Blackwater was given a free pass by the White House because of political connections. They blew it by acting like cowboys. It's the friggin wild west over there. Bad for public relations. Bad for the Iraq effort.

It wasn't really the "wild west" when I was there, but maybe I missed it. I was only travelling around the entire country