Blackwater..No Oversight

[Taosman]

No oversight from the White House.

State Dept. ignored Blackwater warnings
ACCOUNTABILITY: Complaints about Blackwater guards? behavior were acknowledged by some in the State Department?s Bureau of Diplomatic Security, but received little high-level attention.

October 7, 2007 [/color]
WASHINGTON -- The State Department, which is facing growing criticism of its policy on private security contractors, overlooked repeated warnings from U.S. diplomats in the field that guards were endangering Iraqi civilians and undermining U.S. efforts to win support from the population, according to current and former U.S. officials.
State Dept. ignored Blackwater warnings - Los Angeles Times

[Taosman]

Who is Blackwater and how did they get government contracts?

Ken SilversteinPUBLISHEDSeptember 12, 2006Blackwater USA, the private security contractor that has operated in places such as Iraq, Afghanistan, Azerbaijan, and New Orleans, has been booming the past few years. Founded in December of 1996, the company spent its early years ?paying staff with an executive's credit card and begging for customers,? according to the Virginian-Pilot. But today, Blackwater reportedly has revenues of about $100 million annually, almost all of it from government contracts, and maintains ?a compound half the size of Manhattan and 450 permanent employees,? according to the newspaper.
How did Blackwater rise so high, so fast? The ?war on terrorism? got the ball rolling for the firm, but one suspects that political connections played a big part as well. Erik Prince, Blackwater's founder, is a former SEAL who is deeply involved in Republican Party politics. Since 1998, he has funneled roughly $200,000 to GOP committees and candidates, including President Bush. In 2004, Blackwater retained the Alexander Strategy Group, the PR and lobbying firm that closed down earlier this year due to its embarrassing ties to Jack Abramoff and Tom DeLay.
"Revolving Door to Blackwater Causes Alarm at CIA" by Ken Silverstein (Harper's Magazine)

[DaytonBuck]

I would surmise that aren't too many companies in the world that can do this kind of work. I supposed we should send GEICO?

[MaxBuck]

Originally Posted by DaytonBuck

I would surmise that aren't too many companies in the world that can do this kind of work. I supposed we should send GEICO?

No, probably Microsoft. They seem to have their fingers in everything else.

[Taosman]

I wonder why the military couldn't do those Blackwater jobs? And do them cheaper!
Wonder what it would cost to train special ops units to do the same job versus hiring "professionals"?
It just seems money was just thrown at the problem(diplomatic security) to try and fix it.
There are horror stories of no oversight of money($hundreds of millions ) going to Iraq projects.

[Taosman]

Perhaps Muck could make some more sense of why Blackwater can do the job and not trained military?

[Muck]

Originally Posted by Taosman

Perhaps Muck could make some more sense of why Blackwater can do the job and not trained military?

I'm going to be somewhat hamstrung in this conversation since I have an NDA with the company in question.

It has nothing to do with whether the military can handle the mission and everything to do with how you want to prioritize their manpower.

To begin with while EP work utilizes similar skill sets as the typical military operator (ie shoot, move & communicate)...there are some significant differences.

In EP everything is about the principal (ie the dip[censored] you're protecting). The sole responsibility is to keep he/she/them alive.

If a squad of grunts comes under fire, typically they react by agressively trying to break the ambush via fire superiority. For the EP team the whole goal is to get the principal out of the killzone.

Just like anything else the best way to become proficient is to practice, practice, practice until that muscle memory is programmed and you can react without thinking...and then practice some more.

That means that in order to create a competent EP team that is the ONLY thing they are going to be training for. That takes bodies away from other missions. EP work required individuals who are highly self motivated, able to make quick decisions & who can also shoulder large amounts of responsibility.

Not every trigger puller can do that and the ones who can are also the same guys who matriculate into the high speed low drag outfits.

Do you want the Delta & DEVGRU guys doing what they have traditionally been best at? Or do you want them babysitting administrators in suits?

There are only so many bodies to go around.

If you want the active duty folks to pick up that mission as well, that means you are stealing talented NCOs from somebody else and sending them to specialized (and expensive) schools (EP, tactical driving, specialized shooting courses etc etc) and THEN you have to find someone to replace them...and someone to replace their replacements and so on down the line until you're either asking Congress for more bodies...or someone does without.

[ORD_Buckeye]

Originally Posted by DaytonBuck

I would surmise that aren't too many companies in the world that can do this kind of work. I supposed we should send GEICO?

Speaking as a former FSO, we should use the people that we've always used: The United States Marines. Unless you believe that they aren't up to the job, in which case, private $1300 a day (when they weren't double billing) mercenaries were necessary.

[ORD_Buckeye]

Originally Posted by Taosman

Perhaps Muck could make some more sense of why Blackwater can do the job and not trained military?

The Marines have always done a fine job of protecting our embassies and diplomats. Using them (at what the GAO estimated to be 1/7th the cost per man), however, negated the ability to funnel taxpayer dollars to a republican connected private firm.

War profiteers the lot of them, and they should be hung.

[Gatorubet]

Originally Posted by ORD_Buckeye

The Marines have always done a fine job of protecting our embassies and diplomats. Using them (at what the GAO estimated to be 1/7th the cost per man), however, negated the ability to funnel taxpayer dollars to a republican connected private firm.

War profiteers the lot of them, and they should be hung.

I have an issue with BW draining the resources of the Seals, Delta Force, etc,... personnel who have been highly trained on our dime for years, only to have those guys not re-up so that they can take advantage of the private sector wages.

By using BW we are draining our own skill pool in the military.

[AKAKBUCK]

Originally Posted by Gatorubet

I have an issue with BW draining the resources of the Seals, Delta Force, etc,... personnel who have been highly trained on our dime for years, only to have those guys not re-up so that they can take advantage of the private sector wages.

By using BW we are draining our own skill pool in the military.

Good point.... we could hire Executive Outcomes instead.

[Taosman]

When military generals go to Iraq and Afghanistan, don't they use military units/personel?

[stxbuck]

Originally Posted by Taosman

Perhaps Muck could make some more sense of why Blackwater can do the job and not trained military?

Well, if we brought back the draft, the military would have enough troops to cover things that Blackwater does. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Also, it is not like you can force SEALs and such to stay in the military past their specified recall/reserve time-the 24 month window or whatever it is after active duty-and, guess what, they want to earn a living w/ the skills the Army/Navy,etc. taught them. If you are a high end trigger puller, those are the skills you are learning in the Army/Navy/Marines-not the stuff you see in recruiting commercials.

[DaytonBuck]

I'm guessing if US Soldier died protecting the life of the Slovakian ambassador to Iraq you would complain to high heaven. The US Army can provide security to his own people but it's not the responsibility of our Army to provide security for foreign dignitaries. I'm sure to the left any company working in Iraq is party of some chimpbushhilter conspiracy but what are the alternatives? How many businesses can operate in a combat zone? You can't hire mall security guards at 7 dollars an hour and operate within proficiency in Iraq.

[Muck]

Just to put ORD's plan into perspective...if the Marine Corps were to be forced to take up that role (which they sure as hell don't want because it doesn't directly support the 'Corps' mission) then they would have to triple the size of the current Security Forces Batalion (or whatever it's officially called now after the re-org a couple of years back)...that's assuming of course that MSF is the one who gets tasked with it...and retrain half to two thirds of those Marines for personal rather than site based security.

Sure it could be done and you can feel free to think that it would be a cheaper and/or more practical solution if you so desire.

Originally Posted by Gatorubet

I have an issue with BW draining the resources of the Seals, Delta Force, etc,... personnel who have been highly trained on our dime for years, only to have those guys not re-up so that they can take advantage of the private sector wages. By using BW we are draining our own skill pool in the military.[/i]

Media hype aside the re-enlistment rates for component units under SOCOM's command are still consistently the highest for active duty units.

The career guys are still career guys, they aren't leaving in droves. The turnover rate isn't significantly different than it is during peacetime.

That NCO with 10+ years in isn't going to jump ship & trade in his retirement for a couple of years of PSC pay.

Quite frankly if he does, he's an idiot.

Originally Posted by Taosman

When military generals go to Iraq and Afghanistan, don't they use military units/personel?

Yes.

Those individuals are primarily drawn from NIS/CID/OSI (depending on the branch) or MP units with random individual who can come from just about anywhere.

It's not just Iraq & Afghanistan either. Most Div commanders in Germany during the cold war had a driver who attended the Army's PSD school or possibly a small team of 2-4 individuals tasked with protecting them.

During Desert Storm General Myatt's (1st MarDiv CG) driver was an MP who was tasked with the job.