ACORN: Official Thread

[jimotis4heisman]

cuy held their polls open forever. franklin boe is mostly D's.

once again enough garbage to push around both ways on these issues.


the one thing that i find odd is the early vote and register on the same day thing. esepcially since ballots were not marked. no way to contest a single vote.

i personally have been approached to register, ive told these people that i was already registered to vote. ive been told to register again, just in case. i was even told in both this election cycle and the past one to use my nickname. (aka jim instead of james, etc.)

do i think we have voter fraud, yes. do i think it is worse than it used to be, no.

[Gatorubet]

Originally Posted by fourteenandoh

what did he do for them, gator? did he just represent them in a case. if so, i'd say you have a good point. if, however, he worked for/with them on various projects etc I'd say you don't. i don't know enough about it to say.

I guess it boils down to the extent you think that a group that is as large as ACORN is - it is huge - means that anyone working for or with the group ever is to be tagged with any bad that any one of its thousands of members and volunteers does.

An analogy is the Red Cross (different missions, but not always dissimilar). If a local chapter has experienced (like has occurred in the past) fiscal impropriety - like misusing funds, I doubt that you would hold either the National Red Cross responsible for the acts of one chapter, or Obama responsible for the misuse either unless he had something to do with it, even if Obama had previously worked with and campaigned for the Red Cross in the past...

ACORN is largely made up of volunteers. Anytime that is the case you run a real risk of two things: that overzealous volunteers engage in activities that do not meet the organization's rules, and, (this is a possible and not a probable by any means) the risk that in order to hamper the registration efforts some opposition operatives mis-register voters so that the entire registration effort is put in question and challenged.

You might think this a crazy idea, but then if you study elections at all and see the dirty tricks and strategies used by BOTH SIDES, you would not discount it so easily.

Bottom line: I find it very easy to believe that some partisan ACORN volunteers may have tried to register people who did not meet the quals... but then, you have to understand that it would not be intent of the ACORN officials and regulars to do so - they have a national presence and no desire to harm their fund raising and work.

As you know, I live in New Orleans, and I know that they and their volunteers have come down and gutted over three thousand homes. When I do habitat for humanity or my church sponsors groups to gut homes, we see ACORN groups working in the same neighborhoods. They are a liberal organization, and I do not agree with all of their views. But they were NOT put on earth to defraud the Cuyahoga County Registrars office. They do a bunch of good work nationwide for the poor. Working for them, like thousands do, is not a bad thing. ACORN, from what I know from personal experience, is not a bad thing. The government is damn sure doing nothing about the homes in the 9th ward.

Point is, I think it is premature and tenuous to say that if Obama helped the Red Cross in the past several times that you should think negatively about him if some Red Cross irregularities occur. Similarly, unless he or his staff led the volunteers in the registration irregularities, then holding against him his working for or with ACORN on past projects that are in fact often a good thing, well, is not a good decision.

Long way of saying too soon to tell. I just wanted to get out there the fact that ACORN is not some group Obama founded, nor are they some local deal set up to help him get elected by fraud.

[Flocka]

Originally Posted by Gatorubet

I guess it boils down to the extent you think that a group that is as large as ACORN is - it is huge - means that anyone working for or with the group ever is to be tagged with any bad that any one of its thousands of members and volunteers does.

An analogy is the Red Cross (different missions, but not always dissimilar). If a local chapter has experienced (like has occurred in the past) fiscal impropriety - like misusing funds, I doubt that you would hold either the National Red Cross responsible for the acts of one chapter, or Obama responsible for the misuse either unless he had something to do with it, even if Obama had previously worked with and campaigned for the Red Cross in the past...

ACORN is largely made up of volunteers. Anytime that is the case you run a real risk of two things: that overzealous volunteers engage in activities that do not meet the organization's rules, and, (this is a possible and not a probable by any means) the risk that in order to hamper the registration efforts some opposition operatives mis-register voters so that the entire registration effort is put in question and challenged.

You might think this a crazy idea, but then if you study elections at all and see the dirty tricks and strategies used by BOTH SIDES, you would not discount it so easily.

Bottom line: I find it very easy to believe that some partisan ACORN volunteers may have tried to register people who did not meet the quals... but then, you have to understand that it would not be intent of the ACORN officials and regulars to do so - they have a national presence and no desire to harm their fund raising and work.

As you know, I live in New Orleans, and I know that they and their volunteers have come down and gutted over three thousand homes. When I do habitat for humanity or my church sponsors groups to gut homes, we see ACORN groups working in the same neighborhoods. They are a liberal organization, and I do not agree with all of their views. But they were NOT put on earth to defraud the Cuyahoga County Registrars office. They do a bunch of good work nationwide for the poor. Working for them, like thousands do, is not a bad thing. ACORN, from what I know from personal experience, is not a bad thing. The government is damn sure doing nothing about the homes in the 9th ward.

Point is, I think it is premature and tenuous to say that if Obama helped the Red Cross in the past several times that you should think negatively about him if some Red Cross irregularities occur. Similarly, unless he or his staff led the volunteers in the registration irregularities, then holding against him his working for or with ACORN on past projects that are in fact often a good thing, well, is not a good decision.

Long way of saying too soon to tell. I just wanted to get out there the fact that ACORN is not some group Obama founded, or that is a small deal set up to help him get elected.

To sum up your post. "I don't know."

[Gatorubet]

Originally Posted by bigballin2987

To sum up your post. "I don't know."

No, to sum up my post, ACORN is not some evil group set up by Obama to commit voter fraud. Most people have never heard of them, and from the ignorant stuff I'm reading from some McCain supporters, it is clear that they do not have a clue what ACORN is and is about.

AND, as I said, it is too soon to tell...

But thank's for your translating efforts.

[Wingate1217]

Originally Posted by Gatorubet

Long way of saying too soon to tell. I just wanted to get out there the fact that ACORN is not some group Obama founded, nor are they some local deal set up to help him get elected by fraud.

Yes, they have been around for some time and I am not concerned at all with Obama's ties to ACORN. But for a group that seemingly does so much good, how can it continue to put itself in such a bad light (i.e. voter registration). Seems to me if this process (registration) was corrupting my overall message (which Gator has stated in an earlier post) I would eliminate this process or re-define it....

You would think with all our system prowess that we as a nation could design a system where we could vastly eliminate voter fraud (read voting more than once). At the very least (and I know some of you will not agree) but I believe you should have to show some form of identification to be able to vote. We just have to make sure that gaining this ID be it driver's license, state ID card, passport, is easy and affordable for everyone even to the point where we make it free to some individuals.....

[Flocka]

Originally Posted by Gatorubet

No, to sum up my post, ACORN is not some evil group set up by Obama to commit voter fraud. Most people have never heard of them, and from the ignorant stuff I'm reading from some McCain supporters, it is clear that they do not have a clue what ACORN is and is about.

AND, as I said, it is too soon to tell...

But thank's for your translating efforts.

It is too soon to tell what Obama's connection to ACORN is? So it's still going on? Interesting.

[jimotis4heisman]

Originally Posted by Gatorubet

I guess it boils down to the extent you think that a group that is as large as ACORN is - it is huge - means that anyone working for or with the group ever is to be tagged with any bad that any one of its thousands of members and volunteers does.

An analogy is the Red Cross (different missions, but not always dissimilar). If a local chapter has experienced (like has occurred in the past) fiscal impropriety - like misusing funds, I doubt that you would hold either the National Red Cross responsible for the acts of one chapter, or Obama responsible for the misuse either unless he had something to do with it, even if Obama had previously worked with and campaigned for the Red Cross in the past...

ACORN is largely made up of volunteers. Anytime that is the case you run a real risk of two things: that overzealous volunteers engage in activities that do not meet the organization's rules, and, (this is a possible and not a probable by any means) the risk that in order to hamper the registration efforts some opposition operatives mis-register voters so that the entire registration effort is put in question and challenged.

You might think this a crazy idea, but then if you study elections at all and see the dirty tricks and strategies used by BOTH SIDES, you would not discount it so easily.

Bottom line: I find it very easy to believe that some partisan ACORN volunteers may have tried to register people who did not meet the quals... but then, you have to understand that it would not be intent of the ACORN officials and regulars to do so - they have a national presence and no desire to harm their fund raising and work.

As you know, I live in New Orleans, and I know that they and their volunteers have come down and gutted over three thousand homes. When I do habitat for humanity or my church sponsors groups to gut homes, we see ACORN groups working in the same neighborhoods. They are a liberal organization, and I do not agree with all of their views. But they were NOT put on earth to defraud the Cuyahoga County Registrars office. They do a bunch of good work nationwide for the poor. Working for them, like thousands do, is not a bad thing. ACORN, from what I know from personal experience, is not a bad thing. The government is damn sure doing nothing about the homes in the 9th ward.

Point is, I think it is premature and tenuous to say that if Obama helped the Red Cross in the past several times that you should think negatively about him if some Red Cross irregularities occur. Similarly, unless he or his staff led the volunteers in the registration irregularities, then holding against him his working for or with ACORN on past projects that are in fact often a good thing, well, is not a good decision.

Long way of saying too soon to tell. I just wanted to get out there the fact that ACORN is not some group Obama founded, nor are they some local deal set up to help him get elected by fraud.

so since i donate blood regularly im a terrorist? ok, just checking

[BuckeyeMike80]

Originally Posted by JXC

and if it was going on, why would it just be for Obama, and not McCain?

Who gives a [censored] if they were doing it for one or the other, the fact they were doing it is WRONG.

(And given that they are associated with the left-wing just gave the GOP ammo).....

[CookyPuss]

An important note:
Ben Smith's Blog: Two kinds of fraud - Politico.com

"Acorn" may not exactly be a household word, but it was on the cover of one of the newspapers I read in hard copy today, so it seemed worth getting into a marginal story that the GOP is trying to make central.

The key distinction here is between voter fraud and voter registration fraud, one of which is truly dangerous, the other a petty crime.
The former would be, say, voting the cemeteries or stuffing the ballot boxes. This has happened occasionally in American history, though I can think of recent instances only in rare local races. Practically speaking, this can most easily be done by whoever is actually administering the election, which is why partisan observers carefully oversee the vote-counting process.

The latter is putting the names of fake voters on the rolls, something that happens primarily when organizations, like Acorn, pay contractors for new voter registrations. That can be a crime, and it messes up the voter files, but there's virtually no evidence these imaginary people then vote in November. The current stories about Acorn don't even allege a plan to affect the November vote.

There are 2 primary reasons that these folks encourage people to register even if they are already registered. First, they are often pressured to make quotas and are overly aggressive (or lazy). Second, they are honestly concerned that voter registration purges may have wiped a registration. Personally, I verify mine on the county website prior to the registration deadline before each election. Ohio, for example, is supposed to purge anyone who has not voted in 4 years. However, there are some other types of checks they do, including SSN checks, that use databases that often have errors. Many legitimate voters are purged every year and are not notified. NYT - reg needed

Tens of thousands of eligible voters in at least six swing states have been removed from the rolls or have been blocked from registering in ways that appear to violate federal law, according to a review of state records and Social Security data by The New York Times.
The actions do not seem to be coordinated by one party or the other, nor do they appear to be the result of election officials intentionally breaking rules, but are apparently the result of mistakes in the handling of the registrations and voter files as the states tried to comply with a 2002 federal law, intended to overhaul the way elections are run.

Still, because Democrats have been more aggressive at registering new voters this year, according to state election officials, any heightened screening of new applications may affect their party’s supporters disproportionately. The screening or trimming of voter registration lists in the six states -- Colorado, Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, Nevada and North Carolina -- could also result in problems at the polls on Election Day: people who have been removed from the rolls are likely to show up only to be challenged by political party officials or election workers, resulting in confusion, long lines and heated tempers.

Some states allow such voters to cast provisional ballots. But they are often not counted because they require added verification.

Not defending ACORN here, just stating there are multiple explanations for why they might recommend filling out a reg form even if you claim to be registered to them.

[BrutuStrength]

Originally Posted by JXC

I meant here in Ohio, with this early voting stuff...i'm sure there were conservatives doing this. nanananana

To be fair, I haven't heard anything about a group in Ohio (or other states) taking people to register and vote, and also strongly encouraging a candidate. Palestra.net (a college news source) has footage of an acorn gal admitting (bragging basically) that she would take guys to register and push them to vote for Obama. The clip is labeled "Ohio Vote Issues."

I have no doubt that both parties have "get out the vote" initiatives that have them driving people to register and vote. I don't believe, however, that those other organizations are as patently abusive about the practices as Acorn, where not only do they register people many times (and even bribe some), but they also don't seem to have a problem with promoting a select candidate(s).

[AKAKBUCK]

Originally Posted by MuckFich06

Not defending ACORN here, just stating there are multiple explanations for why they might recommend filling out a reg form even if you claim to be registered to them.

Lots of different reasons for fraud...

Yes, I see.

[Gatorubet]

Originally Posted by BrutuStrength

To be fair, I haven't heard anything about a group in Ohio (or other states) taking people to register and vote, and also strongly encouraging a candidate. Palestra.net (a college news source) has footage of an acorn gal admitting (bragging basically) that she would take guys to register and push them to vote for Obama. The clip is labeled "Ohio Vote Issues."

I have no doubt that both parties have "get out the vote" initiatives that have them driving people to register and vote. I don't believe, however, that those other organizations are as patently abusive about the practices as Acorn, where not only do they register people many times (and even bribe some), but they also don't seem to have a problem with promoting a select candidate(s).

I'm confused about why you think registering people to vote for a particular candiate is an "abuse?" That is getting out the vote for your candidate. Why would Obama want to register old white dudes?

[BrutuStrength]

Originally Posted by Gatorubet

I'm confused about why you think registering people to vote for a particular candiate is an "abuse?" That is getting out the vote for your candidate. Why would Obama want to register old white dudes?

The abusive part is influencing (especially when bribes are issued) potential voters to vote a certain way.

[Gatorubet]

Originally Posted by BrutuStrength

The abusive part is influencing (especially when bribes are issued) potential voters to vote a certain way.

Well, bribing, yeah....but registering folks to vote for your guy is not even unethical, let alone criminal.

[fanaticbuckeye]

Originally Posted by Gatorubet

Well, bribing, yeah....but registering folks to vote for your guy is not even unethical, let alone criminal.

Is registering many, many, many times to vote for your candidate criminal? Or how about unethical?