President Elect Barack Obama (post-election-official)

[Buckeye86]

Originally Posted by Gatorubet

If I was an anti-Obama guy, then I'd look for reasons to pot shot him. But the trouble is, our problems are such that the need to back our President is more pressing now than at any time. He has displayed a willingness not to be vindictive (see Lieberman and Clinton) and not to be a liberal ideologue (see keeping Gates). I just don't see the criticism as anything more than sour grapes. But I could be wrong and seeing this through my partisan glasses.

this sounds an awful lot like what was said following September 11th and in the lead up to the invasion of Iraq

backing our President no matter what because we are in a crisis is a bad idea no matter what the circumstances in my opinion

so keep the criticisms coming and don't let Obama get away with the [censored] that Bush and company did

if the criticism ends up being sour grapes than the people doing the criticizing look childish and petty, and if it turns out not to be sour grapes and a legitimate complaint than it's a good thing to be critical of

I personally don't think Obama will do nearly as many [censored]ty things that are detrimental to the country as Bush and company did, but criticize away as far as I'm concerned, if Obama ends up doing a good job than the people who criticize will be marginalized and look like they don't know what they are talking about, and if he does a bad job than he deserves to be criticized

[daddyphatsacs]

Originally Posted by MililaniBuckeye

I was mentioning that to a co-worker this morning. What ... the ... [censored]? Hey, Phi Slama Obama, there is no "Office of the President Elect".

Homey ain't [censored] until he takes the pledge...

This is quite true. But........he also realizes that he is taking this country over in a time of huge uncertainty.... Bush has cashed out and is simply going through the motions. America needs a leader that will step up and talk directly to them. One that will take questions from the press........A guy who looks like he knows what the [censored] he is talking about. Sure, "the office of the president elect" sounds gay.......but then again, Americans are searching for leadership. Most view it as his way of molding his way into office. Obviously, the people who don't like him, or who are skeptics will feel a bit off put. That's the price you have to pay when you are about to preside over a country that has been split in two by it's predecessor.

[Gatorubet]

Originally Posted by Buckeye86

this sounds an awful lot like what was said following September 11th and in the lead up to the invasion of Iraq

To be accurate, almost everyone was behind Bush after 911. Not every one ( I wasn't) was behind the invasion of Iraq.

Originally Posted by Buckeye86

backing our President no matter what because we are in a crisis is a bad idea no matter what the circumstances in my opinion so keep the criticisms coming and don't let Obama get away with the [censored] that Bush and company did

Yep. Exactly right. And I was not advocating that one should abandon their beliefs or philosophy - or even criticism.....just try to keep it to things a little more substantive than flag pins and OOTPE Seals when the country is in big trouble. But the right to criticize should be unfettered, and it certainly includes the right to criticize even those things too. I would never say it should be prohibited. And I think the Fairness Doctrine should only come into play if by accident or design only one or two voices controlled all media. Otherwise, let the marketplace of ideas work it out.

Originally Posted by Buckeye86

if the criticism ends up being sour grapes than the people doing the criticizing look childish and petty, and if it turns out not to be sour grapes and a legitimate complaint than it's a good thing to be critical of

I personally don't think Obama will do nearly as many [censored]ty things that are detrimental to the country as Bush and company did, but criticize away as far as I'm concerned, if Obama ends up doing a good job than the people who criticize will be marginalized and look like they don't know what they are talking about, and if he does a bad job than he deserves to be criticized

Excellent post. Here is a fave quote of mine from Teddy Roosevelt:

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but it is morally treasonable to the American public."

[Buckeye86]

Originally Posted by Gatorubet

Yep. Exactly right. And I was not advocating that one should abandon their beliefs or philosophy - or even criticism.....just try to keep it to things a little more substantive than flag pins and OOTPE Seals when the country is in big trouble. But the right to criticize should be unfettered, and it certainly includes the right to criticize even those things too. I would never say it should be prohibited. And I think the Fairness Doctrine should only come into play if by accident or design only one or two voices controlled all media. Otherwise, let the marketplace of ideas work it out.

yeah, I was thinking halfway through my post that you were probably talking about blaming Obama for trivial things that he has no control over before he even takes office (recession!? I thought Obama said he would change things!!) but was too lazy to incorporate that into my post

[jlb1705]

Originally Posted by Gatorubet

Honestly, there is a power vacuum in the Oval Office. We are in an extraordinary precarious time. With the economy tanking, the war on terror still at max, and the country needing there to be a seamless transition, he apparently decided to take the established title of TPE one step further and add a seal to the existing Office of the President Elect.

When an Obama hater like Lou Dobbs is giving Obama points for trying to fill the power gap left by the current office holder's decision to ramp down his involvement and mentally get back to brush cutting a few months early, it becomes more a choice between being criticized for being ostentatious versus setting a tone that a firm hand is on the tiller waiting to take charge of the economy. The market is one place where perception becomes reality. If he is thought to be weak and indecisive, it can cost our economy. I am happy he chose to try and enhance his prestige as a take charge guy during these troubling times.

If I was an anti-Obama guy, then I'd look for reasons to pot shot him. But the trouble is, our problems are such that the need to back our President is more pressing now than at any time. He has displayed a willingness not to be vindictive (see Lieberman and Clinton) and not to be a liberal ideologue (see keeping Gates). I just don't see the criticism as anything more than sour grapes. But I could be wrong and seeing this through my partisan glasses.

Originally Posted by Buckeye86

this sounds an awful lot like what was said following September 11th and in the lead up to the invasion of Iraq

backing our President no matter what because we are in a crisis is a bad idea no matter what the circumstances in my opinion

so keep the criticisms coming and don't let Obama get away with the [censored] that Bush and company did

if the criticism ends up being sour grapes than the people doing the criticizing look childish and petty, and if it turns out not to be sour grapes and a legitimate complaint than it's a good thing to be critical of

I personally don't think Obama will do nearly as many [censored]ty things that are detrimental to the country as Bush and company did, but criticize away as far as I'm concerned, if Obama ends up doing a good job than the people who criticize will be marginalized and look like they don't know what they are talking about, and if he does a bad job than he deserves to be criticized

Two good posts. I think I'll synthesize the two by saying that I don't think there is a power vacuum. There's plenty of power that has been grabbed up by the current administration. What I think exists is a leadership and accountability vacuum - it has existed for years now, but the disengagement from our nation's current crises by the current administration has only made it worse.

I for one am looking for Obama to fill that void sooner rather than later.

[fourteenandoh]

he's not going to have 60 in the senate. looks like chambliss is running away with the run off today. looks like obama's voters didn't care to show up today.

[Bucklion]

Originally Posted by fourteenandoh

he's not going to have 60 in the senate. looks like chambliss is running away with the run off today. looks like obama's voters didn't care to show up today.

He won, and unless Franken finds a way to cheat (a report of some mystery ballots found today), Coleman appears to have won as well. Either way, the moderate Republicans will carry the day for a while, because they will decide what fights are worth it and what ones aren't from a strong underdog position that the Elephants are in now.

[Gatorubet]

Originally Posted by Bucklion

He won, and unless Franken finds a way to cheat (a report of some mystery ballots found today), Coleman appears to have won as well. Either way, the moderate Republicans will carry the day for a while, because they will decide what fights are worth it and what ones aren't from a strong underdog position that the Elephants are in now.

I find it fascinating that the only explanation for ballots being found and not counted previously is that Franken got someone "to cheat."

I'm with you on "suspicious", absolutely agree to microscopic inspection of the event, but if you can not imagine that Mayberry election officials can simply be incompetent, you are not being realistic IMO.

[Bucklion]

Originally Posted by Gatorubet

I find it fascinating that the only explanation for ballots being found and not counted previously is that Franken got someone "to cheat."

I'm with you on "suspicious", absolutely agree to microscopic inspection of the event, but if you can not imagine that Mayberry election officials can simply be incompetent, you are not being realistic IMO.

Please know I say the following 5 words with the utmost respect:

"Oh, give me a BREAK!"

I agree that had the ballots been found right after the election, say the day after, that this would be possible, as you describe. But now, magically, when he's down by about 150 votes near the end of the recount and supposedly 171 ballots "appear"? Um, er, I just don't know what else to say. All of this, of course, is rumors flying back and forth, so admittedly it's hard to know what to really trust coming out of there from a reporting perspective, but IF ballots are just now magically appearing at the end of a recount that the guy who lost the first time is trying desperately to count at the last minute because he's losing the second? Just not seeing a way to buy it.

[Buckeye86]

Originally Posted by Bucklion

Please know I say the following 5 words with the utmost respect:

"Oh, give me a BREAK!"

I agree that had the ballots been found right after the election, say the day after, that this would be possible, as you describe. But now, magically, when he's down by about 150 votes near the end of the recount and supposedly 171 ballots "appear"? Um, er, I just don't know what else to say. All of this, of course, is rumors flying back and forth, so admittedly it's hard to know what to really trust coming out of there from a reporting perspective, but IF ballots are just now magically appearing at the end of a recount that the guy who lost the first time is trying desperately to count at the last minute because he's losing the second? Just not seeing a way to buy it.

its funny how people have different perspectives on recounts depending on their personal preferences, I'm not accusing you of anything, but it's like fouls in athletic games, both teams always get [censored]ed by the refs according to the fans

on a broader note, the election system in the U.S. really needs to be revamped, not just patching the leaks, but grounds up rebuilt in a way that makes sense for the 21st century

[Bucklion]

Originally Posted by Buckeye86

its funny how people have different perspectives on recounts depending on their personal preferences, I'm not accusing you of anything, but it's like fouls in athletic games, both teams always get [censored]ed by the refs according to the fans

on a broader note, the election system in the U.S. really needs to be revamped, not just patching the leaks, but grounds up rebuilt in a way that makes sense for the 21st century

No argument here...hell, I'd take something that was effective by 20th century standards.

[OH10]

I was mentioning that to a co-worker this morning. What ... the ... [censored]? Hey, Phi Slama Obama, there is no "Office of the President Elect".

Homey ain't [censored] until he takes the pledge...

So Mili is upset because Obama gave his office a title? Hilarious.

[generaladm]

Obama's Windfall Taxes Shift: First Broken Promise?

The Obama team's decision to drop the idea of forcing oil and natural gas companies to pay a tax on their windfall profits has caused a firestorm among liberals and small business coalitions.
As first reported in the Houston Chronicle, Obama's reference to a windfall profits tax, which he articulated during the campaign at a time of skyrocketing gas prices, had been removed from the transition team's Website, change.gov:

President-elect Barack Obama has quietly shelved a proposal to slap oil and natural gas companies with a new windfall profits tax.
An aide for the transition team acknowledged the policy shift Tuesday, after a small-business group discovered the proposal -- touted throughout much of the campaign -- had been dropped from the incoming administration's Web site.
"President-elect Obama announced the policy during the campaign because oil prices were above $80 per barrel," the aide said. "They are below that now and expected to stay below that."


cont'd....

[fourteenandoh]

its going to be fun to watch the left come after him when he leaves the tax cuts, doesn't tax big oil, and stays in iraq.

[OSUsushichic]

Originally Posted by fourteenandoh

its going to be fun to watch the left come after him when he leaves the tax cuts, doesn't tax big oil, and stays in iraq.

This post is an example of why this thread is going to be so fun to read every day for the next four years.