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View Poll Results: Should the US government provide financial assistance to the Detroit automakers
Yes. Like it or not, a lot of jobs are on the line. We don't have a choice. 3 6.98%
Yes, if they have a good business plan. Gov't must get equity, have oversight. 7 16.28%
No, help the affected workers with new job training, incentivise job creation. 4 9.30%
No, they have had too many chances. Let the markets work. Let them go bankrupt. 29 67.44%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

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  #166 (permalink)  
Old 03-31-2009, 06:20 PM
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with the obama forced chrysler-fiat deal fiat becomes a junker (literally)
Fiat Group?s credit rating drops | Freep.com | Detroit Free Press
Quote:
Standard & Poor’s reduced Fiat Group’s credit rating today as Fiat Chief Executive Sergio Marchionne arrived in Detroit to meet with Chrysler, its creditors and the UAW and President Barack Obama’s April 30 deadline raises the urgency for the automakers to make their alliance creditworthy
...
S&P analyst Barbara Castellano said Fiat doesn’t have enough cash or credit lines to cover the bonds due in the next 12 months. Fiat ended 2008 with 3.7 billion euros in cash, down 45% from a year earlier.

Declining car and truck sales worldwide could accelerate the amount of cash Fiat uses in 2009, Castellano said. The credit downgrade affects Fiat’s short-term and long-term debt and could increase the interest rate the Italian company will pay in the future.
...
The president’s auto task force has set criteria Chrysler and Fiat must achieve in order to get a loan of up to $6 billion. They must negotiate new concessions from the UAW, convince banks and hedge funds to accept a fraction of the value of loans and bonds, and reduce its dealer and supplier networks.

Meanwhile, Chrysler Financial, which provides loans to consumers and dealers, laid off 80 people, or about 2% of their work force today. A company spokeswoman cited declining loan applications as the main contributing factor. In January, the government loaned Chrysler Financial $1.5 billion with which it has offered easier terms to car buyers. It has asked for an additional $1.5 billion, which the U.S. Treasury is reviewing.
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  #167 (permalink)  
Old 03-31-2009, 07:54 PM
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fourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayes
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cerberus really screwed up that one...
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  #168 (permalink)  
Old 03-31-2009, 08:01 PM
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14 - what are your thoughts on Ford stock. I was wondering the odds on them becoming the remaining domestic giant when it is all over with. And if we start to go all "buy American" like in the 70s ( I caught some serious [censored] as a union laborer back then for owning a Datsun B-210 ) - or just the increased market share, then Ford could be in for good days eventually. I know you are not my broker, but I was wondering about your thoughts on GM and Chrysler going [censored] up before it is over?
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  #169 (permalink)  
Old 03-31-2009, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorubet View Post
14 - what are your thoughts on Ford stock. I was wondering the odds on them becoming the remaining domestic giant when it is all over with. And if we start to go all "buy American" like in the 70s ( I caught some serious [censored] as a union goon back then for owning a Datsun B-210 ) - or just the increased market share, then Ford could be in for good days eventually. I know you are not my broker, but I was wondering about your thoughts on GM and Chrysler going [censored] up before it is over?
FIFY

Ford stands to benefit from this but the Man-step thing is frickin gay.
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  #170 (permalink)  
Old 03-31-2009, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckeyeMike80 View Post
FIFY

Ford stands to benefit from this but the Man-step thing is frickin gay.
Seriously Mike - they had no Scarlet baby bottle tops you could buy for your daughter?
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  #171 (permalink)  
Old 03-31-2009, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorubet View Post
Seriously Mike - they had no Scarlet baby bottle tops you could buy for your daughter?
seriously , I know side stepping is still a real art.
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  #172 (permalink)  
Old 04-01-2009, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Best Buckeye View Post
seriously , I know side stepping is still a real art.
Side steps. Ford Man-step. I don't know those things you know...

NTTAWWT
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  #173 (permalink)  
Old 04-01-2009, 12:04 AM
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Hussein has declared GM the winner and Chrysler the loser
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  #174 (permalink)  
Old 04-01-2009, 12:11 AM
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fourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayes
fourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayesfourteenandoh is beyond Tressel and Hayes
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaytonBuck View Post
Hussein has declared GM the winner and Chrysler the loser
because chrysler is owned by a PE firm?
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  #175 (permalink)  
Old 04-01-2009, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fourteenandoh View Post
because chrysler is owned by a PE firm?
30 days or hope fiat picks up the bones before then
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  #176 (permalink)  
Old 04-01-2009, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaytonBuck
30 days or hope fiat picks up the bones before then
fiat cant/wont do a good deal. mostly since s&p says if they do it they are junk. its basically come out and said fiat goes under if they take on chrysler stake.

im foundly reminded of the wachovia deal...
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  #177 (permalink)  
Old 04-01-2009, 12:36 PM
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GMAC to resume car loans to subprime borrowers | U.S. | Reuters
Quote:
NEW YORK/DETROIT (Reuters) - GMAC Financial Services said it will resume making car and truck loans to subprime borrowers and will lower inventory financing costs for cash-strapped auto dealers, part of a series of moves intended to spur sales at General Motors Corp.
The moves announced Wednesday come as the embattled automaker races to restructure and get customers back into its showrooms amid growing risk that it will be pushed into bankruptcy by the Obama administration.
GM, whose U.S. sales plunged 51 percent in the first two months of this year, also began rolling out a program that will cover some payments for customers who lose their jobs after buying a car, an incentive intended to bring back shoppers worried about job security amid the recession.
GMAC, which provides financing to many GM vehicle buyers, said it would make at least $5 billion of credit available to customers over the next 60 days, a period during which GM has to prove to U.S. officials it can win sweeping concessions from bondholders and its major union.

...
GM (govt motors) to get into the subprime car financing business again using 5b of credit over the next 60 days.

White House optimistic GM can avoid bankruptcy | U.S. | Reuters
Quote:
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Barack Obama's administration remains optimistic that General Motors Corp can restructure without going to bankruptcy court, a senior administration official said on Wednesday.
The official reiterated the White House's position, however, that "targeted use of the bankruptcy code" could be employed if necessary.
"We remain optimistic that significant re-structuring can be executed without the use of the bankruptcy code," the official told Reuters.
Holman Jenkins Says Barack Obama Will Not Send GM into Bankruptcy and Risk Upsetting the UAW - WSJ.com
Quote:
...
Keep that in mind amid the defenestration of Rick Wagoner, who was not as popular with UAW Chief Ron Gettelfinger as Mr. Wagoner's replacement, Fritz Henderson. Keep that in mind amid reports the administration favors a "quick and surgical" bankruptcy. It's a bluff. The same administration that inserted itself into GM's corporate governance to order the resignation of a CEO is hardly likely to defer to the prescribed legal order for a failing company, namely bankruptcy. Even a "prepackaged" filing runs too much risk of a judge imposing more "sacrifice" on the UAW than the administration is prepared to tolerate.
GM bondholders understand this: They've been intransigent precisely because they calculate the UAW is too important to Democratic electoral politics for Mr. Obama to risk losing control of the reorganization process to a bankruptcy judge.
The GM bailout has become a political operation run out of the White House. It will stay that way. Talk of UAW layoffs already disguises the fact that UAW workers are actually offered generous buyouts and early retirement -- they aren't just sent away with a last paycheck. What about Chrysler? A few weeks ago, Fiat was saying it would consider a merger if a loan from Washington was guaranteed. Now Washington is saying a loan will be forthcoming as long as Fiat does a deal. That's not an ultimatum -- that's a nod and a wink.
...
That captivity, imposed by the 1935 Wagner Act, is the sole relevant factor distinguishing the Detroit Three from the world's other auto makers. The result is downright weird: "Our" auto companies operate in a world that's less "American," in a sense, than the Japanese and German companies that come here and enjoy a free labor market.
The Wagner world was given a second lease on life by a peculiar feature of Congress's 1975 fuel economy law. Known as the "two fleets" rule, it effectively forces Detroit to make its cheap small cars in high-wage domestic UAW factories, even if it means losing money on every car. The rule has no fuel-economy function. Its only purpose is to shield the UAW monopoly inside each Detroit auto maker from global labor competition.
You wouldn't have noticed, but a legislative accident two years ago almost stripped away the two fleets rule. A couple of Republican senators from the South took the lead in crafting the Senate's new fuel economy bill, and built it to please Nissan, which had railed against two fleets for its own reasons.
In the final bill, to no one's surprise, two fleets was quietly restored by Rep. John Dingell and Illinois Sen. Obama (among others) as a political favor to the United Auto Workers.
The UAW's Mr. Gettelfinger had testified, coyly, during Congressional hearings that failing to renew two fleets might cost 17,000 auto workers jobs building small cars. He didn't say that two fleets is in fact the fulcrum by which, for the past 30 years, the UAW has been able to defeat globalization.
...
what you have here is the current system obama cannot and will not let his legacy rest in the hands of the b court judge. obama played tough guy and ran wagoner out of town (and the board)-which apparently this may or may not have been "legal" and may have violated signed ocntracts-yet he has done nothing to address the other side. its a fact that the big three can make autos and turn a profit on them. three of the seven best selling vehicles last month were the big three american pickups. he needs to repeal two fleets. he needs to dump the CAFE and go to a system that is based on a gvw mpg basis. allow the automakers in detroit to make they vehicles they can economically make and ones that provide a sustainable business model under epa regulations delegated on a per gross vehicle weight metrics not on a two fleet system. the results if detroit wanted/needed to they could profitably build their small cars offshyore and the gas guzzlers (suvs, pickups, small dump trucks, etc) in the us. the result of the admins choices are simple-delay the problem beyond nov 2012...
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  #178 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2009, 03:48 PM
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wsj is reporting that the govt wants to secure 5b in debt.

the banks are resisting govt pressure on the 6.9b the banks loaned in over a swap for 5b of that for stock to cut the automakers debt.



come on geithner/obama you can force a deal. if not deem the banks a "systemic risk" and take them over!
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  #179 (permalink)  
Old 04-07-2009, 12:23 PM
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Chrysler bankruptcy risk greater than 70%, more than GM, report says | Freep.com | Detroit Free Press
Quote:
Chrysler faces a greater risk of filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy than General Motors Corp. as a result of the assessments delivered last week by the Obama administration’s auto task force, Moody’s Corporate Finance said in a report on Monday.
What’s more, Moody’s said there is still a 70% overall risk of one or more of the domestic automakers filing for bankruptcy.

“Chrysler faces a more difficult burden in demonstrating its viability than does GM,” Moody’s senior vice president Bruce Clarke said in the report. “With its more challenged portfolio position, smaller size, and narrower window for submitting a revised plan …. Chrysler has the higher risk of filing for bankruptcy in our view.”

Last week, the Obama administration concluded that Chrysler isn’t viable as a stand-alone company and gave the company 30 days to complete a proposed alliance with Fiat Group. GM, in contrast, was given 60 days to put together a new restructuring plan that goes farther than a plan it submitted to the Treasury department in February.

“GM will likely need to make further capacity, headcount, and brand/model reductions to meet government expectations for a successful restructuring,” Clarke said.

Ford, the only domestic automaker to forgo federal bridge loans so far, faces risks as well, Clarke said, even though the Dearborn automaker has made major progress since March with UAW concessions and a successful debt restructuring.

“Although Ford has not requested or received any government loans and has largely achieved the three key targets established by the Treasury Department, the more demanding restructuring requirements placed on GM and Chrysler could compel Ford to pursue similar financial and operational initiatives in order to maintain equal competitive footing,” Clarke said.
Quote:
“We maintain this overall assessment of a 70% risk of bankruptcy for the industry,” Clarke said, “with Ford’s risk being moderately below this level, GM approximating the 70% industry-risk level, and Chrysler at a greater than 70% risk of bankruptcy.”
glad we pumped billions in so they each have about 70% of failing...
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  #180 (permalink)  
Old 04-07-2009, 05:57 PM
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I'm not sure why anyone except Chrysler shareholders think bankrupting this junker is a bad thing. The good parts can be sold off by the trustees, the crap can sink into the sea (and the crap includes the union contracts). Retiree benefits, other than perhaps healthcare, is a protected category, is it not?
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