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| Political Conversation and Debate This forum is not a temporary one. It will exist up to, and after the presidential elections. Some people want to talk or even argue politics, other's don't. Let's see if we can apply some reason and understanding to the debate. |
| View Poll Results: Should the US government provide financial assistance to the Detroit automakers | |||
| Yes. Like it or not, a lot of jobs are on the line. We don't have a choice. |
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3 | 6.98% |
| Yes, if they have a good business plan. Gov't must get equity, have oversight. |
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7 | 16.28% |
| No, help the affected workers with new job training, incentivise job creation. |
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4 | 9.30% |
| No, they have had too many chances. Let the markets work. Let them go bankrupt. |
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29 | 67.44% |
| Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll | |||
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Bailing out the Detroit automakers
The past week, Detroit automakers have testified in Washington, asking for the taxpayer to bail them out of trouble.
Should the US government provide them with financial assistance?
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NO more money!!...let them file bankrupty and reorganize under Chapter 11 protection.....
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I got my MBA back in 1985... and at that time I am pretty sure that every MBA pgm on planet earth had case studies on Detroit & GM.. and I'm sure that every paper done on this said they were a disaster that bewildered all why in the heck they were still in business... and inevitably had to fall since they were irretrievably broken and out of touch
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* ESPN announcer -- "at the .6 yards per carry Iowa is gaining, it would take 17 carries to get a first down" * "If you visit Ohio State, there's nothing to dislike about the place," said Gateway coach Terry Smith. "They get 100,000 fans. They played for the national championship three of the last five years. They put kids in the pros." |
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I also think the govt could help them MOST by letting them go bankrupt.. it's the only way to permit the companies to make the MASSIVE changes necessary... a bailout is merely life support
Bankruptcy lets them go back to the unions and start over... It gives them a position of power to say, if we can't make the radical changes, we're done.. With a bailout, the unions could still make demands and be in positions of strength... Exact same is true of top managerial ranks and their inconceivable bonus programs... Lose money, still make bonus... This one could possibly be fixed both way.. bankruptcy and bail out... with govt mandates to stop the crap
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* ESPN announcer -- "at the .6 yards per carry Iowa is gaining, it would take 17 carries to get a first down" * "If you visit Ohio State, there's nothing to dislike about the place," said Gateway coach Terry Smith. "They get 100,000 fans. They played for the national championship three of the last five years. They put kids in the pros." |
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Bankruptcy protection exists to prevent businesses from going belly up while restructuring their debt and expenses. Let them use it to work out a cost structure that makes them viable. First thing to go? The so called "jobs bank" where thousands of laid off employees collect full salary and benefits for doing absolutely nothing. No business can afford that long term. Throwing money at a failed model won't solve a damn thing. |
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I missed this one from a satirical blog linked on the DickRod thread, responding to his "get a life" advice to Michigan fans:
http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/th...ot/posts/24783 Quote:
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It's not getting what you want. It's wanting what you've got. Sheryl Crow |
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Let them go through a structured bankruptcy.
NJ - It is not only the unions. One of the biggest partners in all of this mess is the dealer network. They have contracts with the Big Three and on top of that they have convinced states to provide them extra protection. My point is there is plenty of blame to go around. I want to hear from either congress or the big 3 why the auto industry should be bailed out instead of the airlines in the past or every other industry in the future watching this with possible hands out.
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so long as their business model is this bad, a bailout will only continue to make the problem fester instead of actually solving anything.
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If the Big 3 suffer ----> Michigan suffers -----> funding of state universities suffer ----> scUM suffers
What am I missing? |
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havent they already gotten a 35b bailout the weekend they worked on teh 700b fin bailout...
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edit: if no link is provided, this will act as the default... http://www.ncaa.org/library/rules/ba...l_archive.html |
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Both. Let the Chapter 11 break the dealership and Union benefits contracts, and let the govt come in after with some $$ for a stock purschase, along with some hard ass regs for high mpg cars. Add a dollar to the gas tax to pay for it all, and to force consumers to buy the damn things.
There! That oughta [censored] off everybody on both sides. ![]()
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![]() "This was a 14-14 game with 12 minutes left. In those final 12 minutes, OU had one first down, 21 total yards and zero points. The Gators had eight first downs, 183 yards and 10 points." |
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The latest example was $577 Million from Tennessee put into VW's pocket. That amounts to a Government hand-out to buy 2,000 auto plant jobs, at about $285,000 per job. There's also the hoped for multiplier effect to generate another 10,000 in TN. Tennessee was in heavy competition with Sen. Shelby's state (Alabama) to buy those 2,000 jobs. Probably Shelby was still upset about his state losing out on the last big plant offer - the one that went to Toyota, despite a better than $360 Million package around 2005, two primary reasons given by Toyota for their preferred placement of new factory? A - Better educated workforce (it was rumored Toyota was shocked that they would have to use Cartoons to tell the 'Bama workers what to do). B - The lower health-care costs in their chosen location. The location was -- Canada. Quote:
Bankruptcy per se isn't a solution to such idiocy - in fact I'm not sold that Bankruptcy will do anything but put a bullet into the heads of the Big 3. Quote:
The reason why I ask that question is because I can see considerable leeriness arising if someone has to think about buying a vehicle, and it's warranty, and service agreement from a company that is in Bankruptcy. Yeah - I know the airlines went through Bankruptcy, inspiring and all, but it isn't the same thing. I fly, say both ways from here to LA on TWA - when it was still alive. No problem if their bankruptcy eventually leads to TWA being belly up. My flight is done. A Bankrupt GM leaves me holding a potentially worthless warrant on a service or lease agreement. Which likely has me having second thoughts about buying their product in the first place. Quote:
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I agree with this, and would only be happy with a deal that spends our tax dollars in the best, most effective and economical fashion. The Democrats have asked for a good plan out of Detroit. If they cnanot bring one forth then I suspect Bankruptcy is in the next round - but let's not kid ourselves, the cost for that process is likely more than some blithe spirits of the free market like Rep. Zach Wamp (TN) would have us believe.
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Sandgk, while I share lots of your concerns, I know of no way absent the use of a Chapter 11 to break the contractual relationships that are choking the Big 3. Absent bankruptcy, I do not see how your have the flexability to do what has to be done (read: cancel what needs to be cancelled) without spending the next ten years in court being sued and fighting injunctions for doing what they need to do to survive.
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![]() "This was a 14-14 game with 12 minutes left. In those final 12 minutes, OU had one first down, 21 total yards and zero points. The Gators had eight first downs, 183 yards and 10 points." |
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If there was any debate about who really protects the workers, I really hope that this sad lesson will resolve it. Unfair restrictions in the labor market has undeniably led to the road of death for Detroit and other cities and towns in the steel belt. The best way for Detroit to revitalize itself is to scrap all laws concerning taxes, the minimum wage and other workers' entitlements. The transition would be tough but necessary for its future vitality.
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May the best man win. |
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