OKC officer pulls man over for anti-Obama sign on vehicle

[LordJeffBuck]

Originally Posted by methomps

But I think it highlights the very inaccuracy of the "you're either pro-life or pro-abortion" argument to say that the first person is pro-gun. But for the existence of the second amendment, this person very well may be completely for a ban on guns. This person would never own a gun and would prefer that nobody else own a gun, yet the black-and-white thinking would have us call him pro-gun?

Yes, when there are people who, despite the Second Amendment, are "anti-gun" in the way that you have described (i.e., they would favor overturning the Second Amendment).

[methomps]

Originally Posted by LordJeffBuck

Yes, when there are people who, despite the Second Amendment, are "anti-gun" in the way that you have described (i.e., they would favor overturning the Second Amendment).

So how can we call the equivalent pro-abortion?

[Muck]

Originally Posted by Gatorubet

Say styx - let me guess...you pro death penalty?

I'm also pro imprisonment for various crimes but strangely I still don't think parents should be able to lock their children in the closet.

Originally Posted by 'BusNative

What's your stance on war? And Darfur?

War is evil. Clearly the moral choice would have been let Germany exercise their right to eliminate Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, left handed people and other inconveniences.

After all it is THEIR national body.

Originally Posted by Gatorubet

Even Palins's kid says abstinence does not work.

Immaculate conception? Sperm laden toilet seat? Sitting in the same chair as someone else who was pregnant? Artificial insemination? A lost stork?

Because unless I really wasn't paying attention in health class all the diagrams I remember were pretty adamant that sex is required to get preggers.

Originally Posted by OSUsushichic

That "Abort Bush" attitude does not represent the feelings of any liberal I know. And I know a lot of anti-Bush people, but NOT ONE of them would put anything so tasteless on his/her car.

I've never met a pygmy in person...that doesn't mean they don't exist.

I've personally seen similar bumper stickers in San Francisco...and in Yellow Springs Ohio (and for the record I don't think hairy legged chicks driving the subarus said stickers were on should get hassled by the cops either).

Originally Posted by Bucklion

Hearing about owning firearms here, I am always amused by people from extreme sides of those issues (often times the anti-abortion folk are pro-gun and vice versa) using the same "slippery slope" argument for their chosen issue stance while turning around 5 seconds later and calling the exact same argument for the other issue (or other side of the same issue even) preposterous.

Care to elaborate?

What slippery slope argument are you referring to? I haven't seen "allow abortion and next thing you know people will be feeding their children to Rosie O'Donnell!!" posts in the thread (I'm asking out of genuine curiosity, I may well have missed it).

Originally Posted by BB73

One euphemism that really infuriates me is "ethnic cleansing" instead of genocide or mass murder

Ethnic cleansing encompasses a lot of actions besides genocide. Forced population transfers, social assimilation through rape or adoptions, marginlization etc.


BTW how did an article about a 1st Amendment issue turn into the abortion donnybrook?

Abortion is easy:

Legalize the day after pill.
Ban late term abortions except in cases of danger to the mother.
Everything in between requires a psych eval & counseling before being allowed (returning for a second time should initiate stronger scrutiny).
Merge abortion back with mainstream surgical procedures...ie al abortions must be performed in a hospital or qualified out patient facility (eliminate the chop shop clinics who's only purpose is to perform abortions).
Tell fat lesbians with short hair and comfortable shoes to shut the hell up. Nobody is going to knock them up in the first place.

[MaxBuck]

Originally Posted by stxbuck

If you stand by and do nothing while over 1 million children a year are slaughtered, yes, you are pro-abortion.

This is a pretty inflammatory comment, stx, and one I cannot agree with.

One can be opposed to an act being a crime (such as flag-burning, e.g.) and yet also be strongly opposed to the act. Most "pro-choice" people I know fall squarely into this camp.

[MaxBuck]

Originally Posted by LordJeffBuck

I understand the policies behind abortion, and do not necessarily disagree with them. But I still think that hiding behind the euphemism of "pro-choice" is just an easy way to ignore the moral implications of abortion.

I would never endorse abortion as the "moral" choice, even in the circumstances of rape. But I'd also never berate a woman for electing to get an abortion after being raped.

I'm curious about the moral component, LJB. Do you believe the moral implications of the morning-after pill (which is an early-term abortifacient) are equivalent to those of a second-trimester abortion? I personally do not; it's hard for me to get worked up over the "human rights" of a zygote.

[stxbuck]

Originally Posted by MaxBuck

This is a pretty inflammatory comment, stx, and one I cannot agree with.

One can be opposed to an act being a crime (such as flag-burning, e.g.) and yet also be strongly opposed to the act. Most "pro-choice" people I know fall squarely into this camp.

I am immflammatory about abortion. I admit it. Given that 95% of all abortions are not related to rape/health, I find it disingenuous that the first thing out the mouths of abortion defenders is "what about..........". They may talk about the importance of protecting the right to an abortion in the case of rape, but they would not support anti-abortion statutes w/ rape/incest exceptions-which almost every proposed statute does in fact have.
I find it hypocritical that school health classes will point out-correctly-the dangers of fetal alcohol syndrome ie-"don't poison your child-they might be born retarded/mentally challenged", but the government allows for the same child to be sucked out of the womb w/ a vacuum cleaner, basically.
Poison your fetus=very bad, Kill your fetus=Constitutional right.

[Gatorubet]

Originally Posted by stxbuck

I am immflammatory about abortion. I admit it. Given that 95% of all abortions are not related to rape/health, I find it disingenuous that the first thing out the mouths of abortion defenders is "what about..........".

I don't care what you find disingenuous. Is that inflammatory?

Originally Posted by stxbuck

They may talk about the importance of protecting the right to an abortion in the case of rape, but they would not support anti-abortion statutes w/ rape/incest exceptions-which almost every proposed statute does in fact have.

Link? Stats? In my neck of the woods, it is almost always the most restrictive law they can draft. That is what I am used to, and of course, the far end of both sides make the most noise, so that is what most of us see and hear. Seriously, whether it is the ubber Catholic demographic or the red state-ness of Louisiana, that (rape/incest exception) is not my experience, so if I mention that issue when we discuss this, it is because that is my reality.

Originally Posted by stxbuck

I find it hypocritical that school health classes will point out-correctly-the dangers of fetal alcohol syndrome ie-"don't poison your child-they might be born retarded/mentally challenged", but the government allows for the same child to be sucked out of the womb w/ a vacuum cleaner, basically.
Poison your fetus=very bad, Kill your fetus=Constitutional right.

You are right there Stx. Kinda like the government subsidizing tobacco farmers while they pay for anti-smoking campaigns. There is no doubt that modern science has made it possible for neo-natal technology to save a baby's life at the same stage as an abortion can end it. That fact is impossible to gloss over or ignore. It is powerful and telling.

But when you go backward from the time of a live birth you get to the issue of the morning after pill, or even to the issue of contraception itself. And so it is not just a clear cut issue of how can you kill a baby, but the issue of when a life is a life. FWIW, here in Louisiana if medical malpractice kills a fetus the hour before birth, it is not a life that has been ended, and the heirs are not entitled to a survival claim. The baby dies after breathing and the mom giving birth, you can bring a claim. What can I tell you, the issue is one confused mess.

[DaytonBuck]

Originally Posted by OSUsushichic

That "Abort Bush" attitude does not represent the feelings of any liberal I know. And I know a lot of anti-Bush people, but NOT ONE of them would put anything so tasteless on his/her car.

Myself, my roomate who was half-Japanese and US Navy vet who was from Curacao (black) were taunted and harassed for supporting Bush in 04 @ OSU. 17th and Neil was a warzone.

[BB73]

Originally Posted by Muck

Ethnic cleansing encompasses a lot of actions besides genocide. Forced population transfers, social assimilation through rape or adoptions, marginlization etc.

I object to the term. There is nothing 'clean' about it.

[Muck]

Originally Posted by BB73

I object to the term. There is nothing 'clean' about it.

See the sad irony of the term makes it even more horrific to me than most of the alternatives that I've seen used.

[MaxBuck]

In one of the sillier byproducts of this incident, some fringy conservative bloggers are talking as though Obama is somehow to blame for the overzealous actions of an Oklahoma policeman:

Now Opposition To Obama Is A Crime | Sweetness & Light

Michelle Malkin ? Crushing of dissent in the Age of Obama

Deborah Gyapong: Pro-life man arrested for anti-Obama anti-abortion sign

I would not previously characterized Michelle Malkin as "fringe," but her rant here pretty much eliminated the respect I once had for her.

[OSUsushichic]

Originally Posted by DaytonBuck

Myself, my roomate who was half-Japanese and US Navy vet who was from Curacao (black) were taunted and harassed for supporting Bush in 04 @ OSU. 17th and Neil was a warzone.

Yeah, liberals HATE minorities. Not sure what this has to do with abortion anyway.

[Muck]

Originally Posted by OSUsushichic

Yeah, liberals HATE minorities.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

Not sure what this has to do with abortion anyway.

About as much as abortion has to do with the actual thread topic.

[OSUsushichic]

Originally Posted by Muck

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

I really don't see the point in this thread. Is it just to point out that liberals are a bunch of wacko haters? EVERY group has its wackos, but to paint the entire party as such is ridiculous. So, we don't agree politically. It doesn't mean we have to be hating on each other.

[BuckeyeLiger87]

Well if you want to go with the "pro-choice" didn't these people already make their choice. Except in cases where there are health risk or sexual assult or insest, if you want to defend a women's right to choose.. well to me she already made her choice.