dropped 3rd strike call in Angels vs. Sox

[BuckeyeNation27]

Originally Posted by MililaniBuckeye

When the umpire pumps his closed fist, that signals "Out"...the Angels have every right to be absolutely livid.

what if the umpire says thats how he calls a third strike, regardless of a dropped ball or not?

[nicknc33]

it's a tough call... i knew as soon as it happened it would cost them the game.

[crazybuckfan40]

A couple things, I thought once you left the batters box and crossed home plater you were out anyways. I view it as stepping on the plate while trying to bunt. I am not sure on this rule, but that is thing that is confusing me is how he was aloud to cross homeplate and come back across and run to first.

Also I agree with Mili that when the ump made the signal he was out. I don't like how umpires take forever to make some of their calls. He had been doing it all night, so I am sure the catcher thinks to himself I caught he has been making late calls all nite, so he runs to the dugout.

I was watching the post game interviews, but still havent figured out who actually ended up making the call. Did the homeplate umpire overrule his own call of calling him out or did one of the base umpires say that the ball hit the ground.

[JonathanXC]

Originally Posted by MililaniBuckeye

When the umpire pumps his closed fist, that signals "Out"...the Angels have every right to be absolutely livid.

No...that is this umpires swinging strike call. He does that every time. As do A LOT of umpires. He did nothing different than he normally does. The fist pump does not always mean out, it also means strike. In this instance, it meant strike, and professional baseball players KNOW this...they've seen it for years.

A couple things, I thought once you left the batters box and crossed home plater you were out anyways. I view it as stepping on the plate while trying to bunt. I am not sure on this rule, but that is thing that is confusing me is how he was aloud to cross homeplate and come back across and run to first.

No. The batter may run to first until he reaches the dugout steps. That's the rule.

Also I agree with Mili that when the ump made the signal he was out. I don't like how umpires take forever to make some of their calls. He had been doing it all night, so I am sure the catcher thinks to himself I caught he has been making late calls all nite, so he runs to the dugout.

I was watching the post game interviews, but still havent figured out who actually ended up making the call. Did the homeplate umpire overrule his own call of calling him out or did one of the base umpires say that the ball hit the ground.

The umpires are instructed to take time on their calls. It is called timing. If you make a call to quick, you are more likely to make the wrong call. Being consistant slow on your calls is considered a good thing in umpiring. It's something that is not just taught to professional umpires, but also college and high school umpires.

The home plate umpire made the call. He never called the batter out. He thought the ball was trapped by the catcher. It was so close that none of the base umpires could have changed the call. But still, they got together, to make sure they did all they could to get this important call correct.

[crazybuckfan40]

Thanks for the clarification XC.

I don't understand how a closed fist like that can be a strike call. I think the strike call should be where you point to the right or left side and say strike. The pump of the fist is like what the base umpires use to call people out.

Also I don't like the rule you can run to first base all the way until you reach the dugout.

Hypothetical for you(never gonna happen) A guy has a ball thrown at his head and he swings to defend him self, strike 3, the ball goes to the backstop and instead of running to first he charges the mound beats the shit out of the pitcher, meanwhile the catcher never threw the ball to first. The guys gets up trots to first is he safe.

I know the call is probably that he was out of the base line or something to that sort, but so is on your away across the plate to the dugout.

[JonathanXC]

Originally Posted by crazybuckfan40

Thanks for the clarification XC.

I don't understand how a closed fist like that can be a strike call. I think the strike call should be where you point to the right or left side and say strike. The pump of the fist is like what the base umpires use to call people out.

Also I don't like the rule you can run to first base all the way until you reach the dugout.

Hypothetical for you(never gonna happen) A guy has a ball thrown at his head and he swings to defend him self, strike 3, the ball goes to the backstop and instead of running to first he charges the mound beats the shit out of the pitcher, meanwhile the catcher never threw the ball to first. The guys gets up trots to first is he safe.

I know the call is probably that he was out of the base line or something to that sort, but so is on your away across the plate to the dugout.

At umpire school, the "out" mechanic, is also the "strike" mechanic. This is the very basic mechanic for these things. Just like the "safe" mechanic is used for other things too, like no catch or no tag, or "ball is still in play." Fans may be confused by the "out" mechanic being used for a strike...but players won't. Players have seen this from rookie ball all the way up. Some umpires point, some umpires use the hammer (what you call the out mechanic). This season I used the hammer. Never did I have any problems like this. The players weren't paying attention to me. The players weren't paying attenion to Eddings. The catcher didn't throw the ball to the pitcher because of anything Eddings did.


If I asked the hypothetical question you asked me to a professional umpire...or asked it at umpire school, the reply would be, "Was it a day or night game?" In other words...did it happen...lol. If a fight happens, and it's an uncought 3rd strike, then i'm going to call time and not give him first. He gets the right to run until he gets to the dugout, but using "common sense and fair play" 9.01c in the rulebook, I'd say that by going to fight, he gave up his right to go to first. You can use common sense and fair play in anything that happens that isn't addressed in the rules. A batter going towards the dugout after a dropped 3rd strike is covered, saying that he can run til he gets to the dugout, but it doesn't cover if he goes to fight. I think it's common sense that he gives up the right if he wants to go fight instead.


What do you think is fair? Sometimes an umpire just has to go with what he thinks is fair, when it's something that's not in the rules. But what happend today was in the rules. Uncaught 3rd strike. Batter starts for dugout, then tries to run and is safe.

It's nice to know what i'm talking about when it comes to baseball. Nobody else has a clue. We need an official from football on this site. Somebody who is experienced, as having done college football and stuff. That would be useful.

[crazybuckfan40]

Originally Posted by JonathanXC

At umpire school, the "out" mechanic, is also the "strike" mechanic. This is the very basic mechanic for these things. Just like the "safe" mechanic is used for other things too, like no catch or no tag, or "ball is still in play." Fans may be confused by the "out" mechanic being used for a strike...but players won't. Players have seen this from rookie ball all the way up. Some umpires point, some umpires use the hammer (what you call the out mechanic). This season I used the hammer. Never did I have any problems like this. The players weren't paying attention to me. The players weren't paying attenion to Eddings. The catcher didn't throw the ball to the pitcher because of anything Eddings did.


If I asked the hypothetical question you asked me to a professional umpire...or asked it at umpire school, the reply would be, "Was it a day or night game?" In other words...did it happen...lol. If a fight happens, and it's an uncought 3rd strike, then i'm going to call time and not give him first. He gets the right to run until he gets to the dugout, but using "common sense and fair play" 9.01c in the rulebook, I'd say that by going to fight, he gave up his right to go to first. You can use common sense and fair play in anything that happens that isn't addressed in the rules. A batter going towards the dugout after a dropped 3rd strike is covered, saying that he can run til he gets to the dugout, but it doesn't cover if he goes to fight. I think it's common sense that he gives up the right if he wants to go fight instead.


What do you think is fair? Sometimes an umpire just has to go with what he thinks is fair, when it's something that's not in the rules. But what happend today was in the rules. Uncaught 3rd strike. Batter starts for dugout, then tries to run and is safe.

It's nice to know what i'm talking about when it comes to baseball. Nobody else has a clue. We need an official from football on this site. Somebody who is experienced, as having done college football and stuff. That would be useful.

Thanks again for the clarification. I still think that it was a tough call to make it that situation, b/c it was obvious that the catcher felt he caught the ball, or he would have just tagged the guy out, you just don't forget to do that. Especially in a tight game and in the bot. of the 9th.

Why we are on the subject what did you think of the call the other night in the Yankees game when the baserunner avoided the first baseman and was called out for being inside the white line.

[JonathanXC]

We never got a great camera angel on that call the other night with the Yankees. The rule says If the batter runs to the inside or outside of the 3 foot running lane and in doing so hinders the first baseman in making attempt to field a thrown ball, then the runner shall be called out. The lines are part of the lane. So if you have one foot in the lane, and the other on the line, you are good. It looked VERY close on replays, but you never quite got the angle you want from the replay (the angle you want is what the home plate umpire had) It really isn't that tough of a call for the home plate umpire as long as he is looking up the line and ready for it. I think they probably got the call right...but it was close. If any part of his foot was to the inside of that line, then it was likely right to call him out.