Reds Tidbits (2007 Season)

[Okinawa's#1Buck]

Originally Posted by Jaxbuck

If Krivsky's "plan" is to tread water with what we have(all the old stop gap players he signs), pray to God the few prospects we do have all make it big and rebuild the ML's through the draft then I'll just say strategic planning seems to be a weakness of his while contracts seem to be his strength. Honestly that sounds like a plan Dan O would pul out of one of his binders and the #1 reason (along with the ass raping he took in The Trade last year) that my personal jury on Krivsky is still out.

Is our team really built on "stop-gap" players? I see 1 starter (hatterberg) and 1 bench player (Conine). I can't believe we would have been able to put together a better rotation at this time. Four of our bullpen members should be long-term members of the organization.

Besides, name me a team outside of NY and Boston that doesn't have a few of these players on their roster.

What other options do you think he has available to him at this point in time? He doesn't have an endless supply of money to throw at players, and it seemed Aurillia and SS were determined to leave regardless.

[Jaxbuck]

Originally Posted by Okinawa's#1Buck

Is our team really built on "stop-gap" players? I see 1 starter (hatterberg) and 1 bench player (Conine). I can't believe we would have been able to put together a better rotation at this time. Four of our bullpen members should be long-term members of the organization.

Besides, name me a team outside of NY and Boston that doesn't have a few of these players on their roster.

What other options do you think he has available to him at this point in time? He doesn't have an endless supply of money to throw at players, and it seemed Aurillia and SS were determined to leave regardless.

I'm not proposing any kind of FA spending spree, I wanted to see a proactive approach when he came in and take adavantage of all those career years people were having in the first half of '06. If the fools gold of thinking we were really in a pennant race wasn't chased, we could have rebuilt our ML's in one fell swoop by selling hot players in a sellers market. The potential for a complete haul was there if they just bite the bullet and say we are going to get worse before we get better and blame it all on the previous regime.

I know a lot of people cringe from years past when I say we should have sold all the good china and started over but it needed to happen imo. I just don't think treading water and rebuilding from the draft will work in the Reds case because the ML's were so completely depleted for so long.

As far as the stop gap guys go, yes all teams have some and need them. If/when we are ever good again we will too. IMO Hatte, Conine, Castro, and Moeller all fit the bill of stop gap as far as the position players go. Lohse, Saarloos, Cormier, Stanton and Weathers are the pitchers I could do without. So thats roughly 40% of our 25 man roster are guys who fit the place holder/stop gap category to me.

Again, I know we aren't going to get any better than that via FA and we don't have enough talent coming up to avoid this situation. Which always brings me back to the AS break '06. I said sell then and I say we should have sold now.

[Okinawa's#1Buck]

Jax,

I see your point. It is tough to imagine a fan base more in need of a winning season. We could have built some upper-tier talent using the likes of Kearns, Lopez and Aurilla (maybe even Milton) but that would have been a tough sell to the fans. We were in striking distance at the deadline and looked like our pen was the only setback. You are right in that it was a sellers market and we could have added some key to the near future.

Can you really hold that against Kriv though? Wouldn't that be Castellini's direction and decision?

[crazybuckfan40]

I still don't have a problem with that trade with the nationals...

Maybe we could of got a couple prospect for the guys, but if you look at Bray he is a young gun who is only going to get better, and take a year or two off his age and he is a great prospect.

Majeski due to injury hasnt bee able to show us what hes got, and he has put up stellar numbers b4 coming out of the pen.

With two guys like Bray and Majeski that fills a huge hole with a pen that b4 them stunk, and I honestly don't think the value of Lopez and Kearns was as high as some might believe...

We don't have a minor league system, but other than the guys we got rid of who else would you say to sell...

If you are getting rid of Dunn you better be getting an MLB ready pitcher not some prospect, remember what happen in a situation like that when we got Clauseen...

Either way we have quality major league players at all positions, might not have the best hitters, but we have turned into a pretty good defensive team minus Dunn, EE, and Griffey, but we have fast guys to bring in for Griffey when he takes a day or two off or gets injured, but Griffey still brings a pretty stellar bat, and EE has worked all off season to improve his D, which I think will be better. Dunn is just Dunn...

Then the problem is pitching, but you have 1-2 punch with Harang and Arroyo that have all-star caliber arms, then our 3-5 starters and our pen is where we will struggle, but with some young arms like Bray, Majeski, Belisle, Coffey already in the majors to go along with vetrans like Weathers, Stanton, Milton, Sarloos, etc we have a middle of the road staff in the NL. Put some defense behind them and score some runs playing a little small ball instead of just trying to hit the long ball with some speed guys and double hitters like Hatte, and EE and we might be on to something...

I understand you can't sustain success with the way Kriv is doing it(No minors), but if given his track record with guys like Ross, Phillips, Arroyo he can sure find value in his trades, and with a couple years of drafting and developing and maybe a year of trading for prospects and we might right where need to be...

[MuckFich06]

I have to say that I thought the time to do the fire sale was a few years ago. Signing Larkin to that 3 year 27 mill deal after the trade fell through was a killer mistake. From 2001-2003, half of the Reds' budget was tied up in 2 players that were hurt over half the time. Marge had gutted the farm system. "Scouts? We don't need no stinking scouts." Leather Pants Man Bowden was drafting countless outfielders and shortstops intead of stockpiling young arms. Look at how many years Wily Mo ate up a roster spot before he got playing time. The organization was a mess when O'Brien came in. I think he actually started moving things in the right direction, but there was a new ballpark and pressure to put a winning product on the field. This year and last year's teams just really don't have the guys that you can get the types of prospects the Reds need. Besides, prospects are a crapshoot. Harang wasn't supposed to be in the same league as Claussen, remember?

Finally things seem to be getting better in the draft and from a player development stand point. Its good to see some Reds players in the top prospects lists, it has been awhile. I'm usually a proponent of trading guys before their value is gone, but I didn't have a problem with Kriv's moves last year. I think the Kearns deal needs another year before we will really know if it was the "ass raping" some think it to be (Jaxbuck is definately not alone with those thoughts). I thought it was the right move to take a shot at winning the division last year. The hitting just absolutely collapsed. Could not blame that one on the pitching one bit. It's always hard to try to win while transitioning. Actually if the Reds could have stayed off the west coast last year, they had a damn good record. Played over their heads, but none the less.

As for the "stop gap" guys on the current roster, none are making serious bank. Hatteberg is the one guy I think needs to go. Come on Joey Votto. Hatteberg hit .300 in the middle of the lineup last year and barely drove in more runs than Rafael F'n Furcal. Hopefully, Conine can still hit and can pick up some of that slack. (Although my initial reaction to that pick up was a WTF). I think the keys to this year are a healthy Griffey and a consistent lineup. It has been awhile since the players on the Reds had clearly defined roles and knew where they would be hitting and what was to be expected of them on a daily basis. It's much easier to do your job when you know what it is.

[Jaxbuck]

My issue with the trade wasn't the concept but rather the execution. I think Kriv overspent BIG TIME. Time will tell, but we essentialy traded AK and FeLo for Bray and Majewski straight up. I'm just not ok with that.

All in all I think this years team is built well enough to honestly flirt with .500 ball and thats probably good enough for another meaningful season. I'll take that and a dash of hope for the future to go with it. Been a long time coming around these parts.

[OSUBasketballJunkie]

Cincy

Reds need better drafts
Injuries kept top picks from ever reaching big leagues
BY JOHN FAY | JFAY@ENQUIRER.COM

New player development director Terry Reynolds knows the trend is going to have to end for the Reds to turn the franchise around.
A team simply can't lose No. 1 picks like Chris Gruler and Ty Howington to injury.
Gruler, the club's No. 1 pick and third pick overall in the 2002 draft, was released two weeks ago. The Reds paid him a $2.5 million bonus - still a club record. Howington, the club's No. 1 pick and 14th pick overall in the 1999 draft, was released less than a year before.

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