Indians Tidbits (2008 season)

[LitlBuck]

Originally Posted by OH10

If the Yankees are out of it, they'll consider trading for him .

I would never deal anybody to the Yankees. Never Ever!!

[Piney]

Originally Posted by OH10

If the Yankees are out of it, they'll consider trading for him to avoid bidding for him in the offseason. Who would we get in return? Good question, but Hank Steinbrenner is nuts, so we could get greedy and ask for Robinson Cano..

Ummm, this isn't basketball or football. The only thing a trade does is give then a chance to sign him early. But it won't be for a discount. So why would the Yankees trade players for a guy they can get for "free". As a few million more in the open market is better than giving up Cano or anyone else.

Originally Posted by OH10

Laffey is only a fringe starter because we have a lot of depth right now. But keep this in mind for 2009:

1. C.C. is gone.
2. Byrd is probably done as an effective starter, if not sooner.

All of a sudden, if you give up those two guys (Laffey and Sowers) and you lose the other two (Sabathia and Byrd), then that great starting pitching depth is gone just so we could make one last hurrah.

I'd personally rather see long-term success because anything can happen in the post-season. All you have to do is get there.

But you are not taking in the whole picture. Let's say we trade both Laffey & Sowers and lose CC & Byrd. We have Carmona, Lee & Westbrook and need 2 more pitchers. Hopefully Adam Miller stays healthy and becomes the 4th or 5th starter. So that means the Indians just need one more pitcher.

CC & Byrd make about $15+ million this year. So basically the Indians can use that money to sign a free agent pitcher. Yeah, they won't spend all $15 million on someone, but they can use $7-$9 million to get an average pitcher to fill out the rotation. And take a flyer out on a 6th starter to be ready at Buffalo in case of injury.

So let's say that the guy we sign is a little bit better than Byrd. So in the end you swap out CC for Miller and we lose depth. But in return we get a stick we sorely need in trading away Laffey/Sowers (and that is if we trade both of them).

Not like we become a pathetic pitching team like the Yankees. And we still probable have the best rotation in our division.

[OH10]

Originally Posted by LitlBuck

I would never deal anybody to the Yankees. Never Ever!!

Would you let him walk to them for free?

Ummm, this isn't basketball or football. The only thing a trade does is give then a chance to sign him early. But it won't be for a discount. So why would the Yankees trade players for a guy they can get for "free". As a few million more in the open market is better than giving up Cano or anyone else.

'Cause Hank Steinbrenner is bat-[censored] crazy, that's why. The sign early thing is a big deal is baseball, by the way. It's like having an option contract on a home. They're the only ones that can negotiate.

But in return we get a stick we sorely need in trading away Laffey/Sowers (and that is if we trade both of them).

What kind of stick do you think you get for those two? Certainly not the kind you get for C.C. If we trade the fat guy for a bat, next year, we lose nothing. We'd still have outstanding depth in the rotation, which fosters competition... and we'd have a better bat for this year. All we lose is a half year with C.C., which isn't much considering how much he stunk up the joint last postseason.

CC & Byrd make about $15+ million this year. So basically the Indians can use that money to sign a free agent pitcher.

I'd prefer to spend it on a free agent bat.

[Piney]

Originally Posted by OH10

'Cause Hank Steinbrenner is bat-[censored] crazy, that's why. The sign early thing is a big deal is baseball, by the way. It's like having an option contract on a home. They're the only ones that can negotiate..

If he was that crazy he would have Santana right now. And if they are out of contention the baseball people will tell him we can just buy CC and still keep their offensive players.

Signing early is a big deal? Then CC would be signed already. I really doubt CC when traded to the Yankees would accept their deal. Why wouldn't he wait for free agency then? Especially since he prefers to be on the west coast?

Originally Posted by OH10

What kind of stick do you think you get for those two? Certainly not the kind you get for C.C. If we trade the fat guy for a bat, next year, we lose nothing. We'd still have outstanding depth in the rotation, which fosters competition... and we'd have a better bat for this year. All we lose is a half year with C.C., which isn't much considering how much he stunk up the joint last postseason.

I'd prefer to spend it on a free agent bat.

Where is this bat we can get for CC??? Like I said earlier there is no team out there that will give us major league ready hitting while they are in a pennant race. All we will get for CC is prospects like Andy Marte . We will have to wait 2-3 years to see if they will pan out.

Where as you trade a combination of Laffey/Sowers/Marte & other prospects that are a few years away that teams that are rebuilding want. We get a player like Holliday in return (or someone else) It helps us this year and if they are not a free agent will help us next year.

So the math is simple:

Trade CC and Indians get prospects
Trade our pitching prospects and get players at the big league level.

I prefer the later.

[OH10]

Originally Posted by Piney

Signing early is a big deal? Then CC would be signed already. I really doubt CC when traded to the Yankees would accept their deal. Why wouldn't he wait for free agency then? Especially since he prefers to be on the west coast?

It's a big deal if you're not Minnesota, Kansas City or Cleveland.

Where is this bat we can get for CC??? Like I said earlier there is no team out there that will give us major league ready hitting while they are in a pennant race. All we will get for CC is prospects like Andy Marte . We will have to wait 2-3 years to see if they will pan out.

That's probably a good point, but not a deterrent. Shapiro should have seen Marte coming. But remember what the Bartolo Colon trade netted this team...

Where as you trade a combination of Laffey/Sowers/Marte & other prospects that are a few years away that teams that are rebuilding want. We get a player like Holliday in return (or someone else) It helps us this year and if they are not a free agent will help us next year.

And what kind of bat is that? Laffey and Sowers are not highly sought after. What over-the-hill .240 batter do you expect to get by trading them?

So the math is simple:

Trade CC and Indians get prospects
Trade our pitching prospects and get players at the big league level.

I prefer the later.

I prefer the former. I want a team that can compete and get to the playoffs every year. If C.C. had shown that he could be a big-game pitcher, I might feel differently. But he absolutely did not last year. So I don't think we lose anything by shipping him. We lose out on prospects or potential a decent bat if we don't.

If you have five shots to make a basket, it's a lot better than one. I'll take the future, especially if it means we ain't giving up much (if anything at all) in the present.

[LitlBuck]

Originally Posted by OH10

Would you let him walk to them for free?

If it comes down to that, let them pay out of the whatever. They would never give us anything good in return anyhow even if they would trade with us or us with them.

What kind of stick do you think you get for those two? Certainly not the kind you get for C.C. If we trade the fat guy for a bat, next year, we lose nothing. We'd still have outstanding depth in the rotation, which fosters competition... and we'd have a better bat for this year. All we lose is a half year with C.C., which isn't much considering how much he stunk up the joint last postseason.

I think a team would rather have two quality starters (maybe not Cy Young winners) rather than one starter when the two quality starters probably could get them more wins in a season then just CC. Saying that, I would not trade both Laffey and Sowers. Maybe one but not both.

[LitlBuck]

Originally Posted by Piney

If he was that crazy he would have Santana right now. And if they are out of contention the baseball people will tell him we can just buy CC and still keep their offensive players.

Signing early is a big deal? Then CC would be signed already. I really doubt CC when traded to the Yankees would accept their deal. Why wouldn't he wait for free agency then? Especially since he prefers to be on the west coast?

Where is this bat we can get for CC??? Like I said earlier there is no team out there that will give us major league ready hitting while they are in a pennant race. All we will get for CC is prospects like Andy Marte . We will have to wait 2-3 years to see if they will pan out.

Where as you trade a combination of Laffey/Sowers/Marte & other prospects that are a few years away that teams that are rebuilding want. We get a player like Holliday in return (or someone else) It helps us this year and if they are not a free agent will help us next year.

So the math is simple:

Trade CC and Indians get prospects
Trade our pitching prospects and get players at the big league level.

I prefer the later.

I would not call either of these guys prospects. I think they are proven young talent and every team wants pitching.

I would think that we could get at least one good proven bat and some young talent for CC.

I want to win now and we have the best minor-league talent than anyone else so the future is bright no matter what. However, I just don't think you give good players away.

By the way, how good is Cincinnati Will it be another sweep this weekend

[Buckeye86]

Originally Posted by LitlBuck

By the way, how good is Cincinnati Will it be another sweep this weekend

Cincinnati is in the opposite position as the Tribe, their offense is usually pretty good, and their pitching is usually pretty awful, and their bullpen is putrid. Just the other night their bullpen blew a 5 (? give or take) run lead in the 9th, but they ended up winning in extra innings.

It will be interesting to see our anemic offense vs their crappy pitching and our pitching against their offense.

[MaxBuck]

Originally Posted by MolGenBuckeye

2005-2007 splits for Holliday:

Home (863 AB)

.370 BA
59 HR
212 RBI
1.106 OPS
147 K

Away (854 AB)

.281 BA
30 HR
126 RBI
.809 OPS
168 K

Good find, MolGen. I don't see somebody with a 0.8 OPS as being all that attractive.

Oh, and I think trading CC is essential to the long-term success of the Tribe. I love Sabathia, but IMO his trade value will never be higher to the Tribe than it is now.

[buckeyemania11]

Sowers ends the unearned run streak by starters

[NFBuck]

[censored]ing Sowers.

Aside from the back-to-back shutouts back in '06, he's never shown a whole lot to indicate he could be a decent MLB starter. He's a junkballer.

[BuckeyeMac]

Originally Posted by buckeyemania11

Sowers ends the unearned run streak by starters

lol he's doing more/(worse) than just ending that streak

[buckeyemania11]

Originally Posted by NFBuck

[censored]ing Sowers.

Aside from the back-to-back shutouts back in '06, he's never shown a whole lot to indicate he could be a decent MLB starter. He's a junkballer.

yep, right now he is tossing up batting practice like he did last year

and the offense is going to give no help (shocker) from the looks of it so far

[NFBuck]

Originally Posted by buckeyemania11

yep, right now he is tossing up batting practice like he did last year

He just plain sucks. I cringe everytime I hear talk of him coming up.

and the offense is going to give no help (shocker) from the looks of it so far

Cueto has been getting rocked his last couple outings if I'm not mistaken, so hopefully they can get to him the second time around the order...

[BuckeyeMac]

We could have him PH (Sowers) in the futuer , he's had the best at bat tonight so far....hahahaha