Pirates Tidbits (2009 season)

[Jake]

"Closer", my ass. If you have a guy, like Mariano Rivera, then have a closer. But the notion that every team HAS to have a guy who only pitches the 9th inning is modern day bull[censored]. Sometimes, all of this specialization is crap. If the guy who pitched the 8th is doing well leave him in there.

The Pirates were rolling along tonight until their "closer" [censored]ed away a 4 run lead in the 9th inning. Shades of Kerry Wood in Cleveland.

[Jake]

And the collapse is complete.

Matt Fatass gives up 6 hits, 5 runs and gets one [censored]ing out. Phils come back to win, 8-7.

[jmorbitz]

Originally Posted by Jake

"Closer", my ass. If you have a guy, like Mariano Rivera, then have a closer. But the notion that every team HAS to have a guy who only pitches the 9th inning is modern day bull[censored]. Sometimes, all of this specialization is crap. If the guy who pitched the 8th is doing well leave him in there.

The Pirates were rolling along tonight until their "closer" [censored]ed away a 4 run lead in the 9th inning. Shades of Kerry Wood in Cleveland.

As sad as it is, it's pretty much what you'll see as long as little leagues, high schools, college, minor leagues, hell even MLB have these ridiculous pitch counts. Pitch counts are ok, but setting a certain limit really hinders progress and development. Having a starter, middle reliver, set up guy, and closer, is like you said, bull[censored]. I agree, if the batter's can't hit a guy leave him in there. You didn't see Jonathon Sanchez come out in the 9th the other night during his no-no, what's the difference if someone gets a no hit inning?

[Jaxbuck]

Originally Posted by Jake

And the collapse is complete.

Matt Fatass gives up 6 hits, 5 runs and gets one [censored]ing out. Phils come back to win, 8-7.

What are you bitching about, it was your fantasy guy who hit the 3 run bomb in the 9th. (one of many your team has launched against my pathetic band of [censored]tards )

[NFBuck]

Originally Posted by jmorbitz

As sad as it is, it's pretty much what you'll see as long as little leagues, high schools, college, minor leagues, hell even MLB have these ridiculous pitch counts. Pitch counts are ok, but setting a certain limit really hinders progress and development. Having a starter, middle reliver, set up guy, and closer, is like you said, bull[censored]. I agree, if the batter's can't hit a guy leave him in there. You didn't see Jonathon Sanchez come out in the 9th the other night during his no-no, what's the difference if someone gets a no hit inning?

Warren Spahn, Vida Blue and all those old timers laugh at these pussy ass pitch counts. Those men tossed 350 innings a season sometimes.

[Jaxbuck]

I don't think its so much pitch counts as a generation of managers who fail to grasp the concept of using your best bullpen arm in high leverage situations regardless of inning as opposed to a strict rotation based on inning and ignoring situation.

They confuse "closer" with annointed "save" stat collector.

[Jake]

Originally Posted by jmorbitz

As sad as it is, it's pretty much what you'll see as long as little leagues, high schools, college, minor leagues, hell even MLB have these ridiculous pitch counts. Pitch counts are ok, but setting a certain limit really hinders progress and development. Having a starter, middle reliver, set up guy, and closer, is like you said, bull[censored]. I agree, if the batter's can't hit a guy leave him in there. You didn't see Jonathon Sanchez come out in the 9th the other night during his no-no, what's the difference if someone gets a no hit inning?

At the MLB level, a lot of it comes down to the salary levels AND the fact that all contracts are guaranteed for the full amount. No manager wants to be the guy who gets blamed when a guy with a $90 million contract tears his rotator cuff on his 120th pitch of the game.

But the notion that "this guy will pitch the 7th, this other guy the 8th, and a different guy the 9th, every time we have a lead" is painfully stupid. By injecting that many guys into the game odds are one of them will have an off night, more often than not.

[Jaxbuck]

Originally Posted by Jake

At the MLB level, a lot of it comes down to the salary levels AND the fact that all contracts are guaranteed for the full amount. No manager wants to be the guy who gets blamed when a guy with a $90 million contract tears his rotator cuff on his 120th pitch of the game.

Dusty Baker is suprisingly ok with it.

[Jake]

Originally Posted by Jake

So reality TV in India is the new scouting initiative.

Pirates sign two pitchers from India

Call him up!

LAKELAND, Fla. (AP)?Pittsburgh Pirates farmhand and reality show contestant Rinku Singh earned his first win Monday in the second game of a Gulf Coast League doubleheader.

Singh struck out the only batter he faced in the Bradenton Pirates? 10-5 victory over the Detroit Tigers? affiliate He is believed to be the first India-born player to win a professional baseball game in the United States.

India-born Pirates farmhand gets win - MLB - Yahoo! Sports

[NY Buckeye]

Originally Posted by NFBuck

Warren Spahn, Vida Blue and all those old timers laugh at these pussy ass pitch counts. Those men tossed 350 innings a season sometimes.

Ask Mike Norris, Brian Kingman, Steve Mccatty or any of the 1980 A's pitchers about the importance of pitch counts.

[Jake]

Originally Posted by NY Buckeye

Ask Mike Norris, Brian Kingman, Steve Mccatty or any of the 1980 A's pitchers about the importance of pitch counts.

The Hall of Fame has several pitchers who routinely threw more pitches in a game than these guys. I remember Norris, Kingman, and McCatty, and I would suggest the lack of pitch counts wasn't their only problem.

[NY Buckeye]

Originally Posted by Jake

The Hall of Fame has several pitchers who routinely threw more pitches in a game than these guys. I remember Norris, Kingman, and McCatty, and I would suggest the lack of pitch counts wasn't their only problem.

I agree about the HOF - although baseball has countless others whose careers were destroyed by the complete disregard for pitch counts. Even some HOFers - Mr. Koufax for example.

Btw - Norris won 22 games in 1980 and pitched over 280 innings. He had previously never pitched over 150 innings and his career was over 4 years later.

Kingman pitched a career high 211 innings in 1980. He never pitched more than 125 after that season and was out of the majors 3 years later.

Both are text book examples of young pitchers pushed way past their limits. Their careers were forever changed due to high inning totals and pitch counts.

[Jake]

Originally Posted by NY Buckeye

I agree about the HOF - although baseball has countless others whose careers were destroyed by the complete disregard for pitch counts. Even some HOFers - Mr. Koufax for example.

Btw - Norris won 22 games in 1980 and pitched over 280 innings. He had previously never pitched over 150 innings and his career was over 4 years later.

Kingman pitched a career high 211 innings in 1980. He never pitched more than 125 after that season and was out of the majors 3 years later.

Both are text book examples of young pitchers pushed way past their limits. Their careers were forever changed due to high inning totals and pitch counts.

A sample of two is pretty small upon which to base a trend, but I see your point to a degree. While completely disregarding pitch counts and innings is a bad idea the limits today are lower than ever and yet we have more young pitchers getting reconstructive surgeries than ever.

The failure to build up arm strength is just as dangerous as increasing one's limits too quickly. The result is a fragile arm that is bound to give out sooner, not later. Pitchers, and the large guaranteed contracts, are babied to ridiculous levels yet we have "Tommy John" and other surgeries happening for several guys year after year.

[Jake]

Originally Posted by Jake

Eighteen, yes 18, consecutive losses to the Milwaukee Brewers...

It's about damn time.

Pirates 8
Brewers 5

(Turns out it was only 17 straight losses, but it felt like 18)

[Jake]

Bucs chase Dan Haren after five innings and four runs, his shortest outing of the season. Go figure.

Of course, they still have to hold the lead.