Barry Bonds (Juiced Merge)

[LoKyBuckeye]

Originally Posted by Buckeyeskickbuttocks

Say what you want about the guy, but that's a lot of dingers.

a lot of dingers and a lot of taters

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

BL - it's true what you say about the modern game where offense is concerned. However, isn't it equally as true to say that "old school" pitchers had an easier time of it? Bigger parks (Polo Grounds), higher mound (I think this is correct), more starts, less RP = more opps to win... and so on. I doubt anyone will ever come close to Cy Young's 511, or Chesbro's 41. I highly doubt we'll see a lower ERA than 1.04 (Brown) or even 1.12 (Gibson, Modern).

Of course, while today's parks appear hitter friendly, we still haven't seen a .400 hitter since 1941. So, I'd say they are simply more power friendly. Sign of the times, I guess.

Incidently, I would bet both A-Rod and Pujols end up passing Aaron, and I would bet Pujols ends up being the all time HR leader when all is said and done for his career (not bad for a guy who doesn't consider himself a power hitter). Of course, there's a long way to go, and either one of them could end up missing signifigant time with injuries... So...

Anyway, no one seems to worry that the house that Ruth built has one of the shortest fences in the majors to left (Dimensions: Left field: 280.58 (1923), 301 (1928), 312 (1976), 318 (1988)) and the Babe was a lefty.

[Bucklion]

Originally Posted by Buckeyeskickbuttocks

BL - it's true what you say about the modern game where offense is concerned. However, isn't it equally as true to say that "old school" pitchers had an easier time of it? Bigger parks (Polo Grounds), higher mound (I think this is correct), more starts, less RP = more opps to win... and so on. I doubt anyone will ever come close to Cy Young's 511, or Chesbro's 41. I highly doubt we'll see a lower ERA than 1.04 (Brown) or even 1.12 (Gibson, Modern).

Of course, while today's parks appear hitter friendly, we still haven't seen a .400 hitter since 1941. So, I'd say they are simply more power friendly. Sign of the times, I guess.

Incidently, I would bet both A-Rod and Pujols end up passing Aaron, and I would bet Pujols ends up being the all time HR leader when all is said and done for his career (not bad for a guy who doesn't consider himself a power hitter). Of course, there's a long way to go, and either one of them could end up missing signifigant time with injuries... So...

Anyway, no one seems to worry that the house that Ruth built has one of the shortest fences in the majors to left (Dimensions: Left field: 280.58 (1923), 301 (1928), 312 (1976), 318 (1988)) and the Babe was a lefty.

Yeah, everyone said Grifey Jr. and A-Rod would be the guys...A-Rod still might make it, but it does show that injuries can certainly take a toll on a "chaser".

As for the old pitchers, sure, you can say that...of course the records are apples to oranges in some sense. A lot of people say, for example, there will never be another 300 game winner...let alone 500, which is very possible. Still, one more factor that helped all the really old pitchers was the "dead ball" era, where guys would lead the league in HRs with something like 15 or so for a period. So, yes, the pitchers got plenty of help, but no one really compares old pitchers to modern pitchers using numbers like they do hitters, it seems, for all of those reasons.

Of course you are right about .400, and it is a point well-taken, but the "money era" if you will, killed most of that pursuit of .400 anyway, because the slap-hitters (like Boggs and Gwynn, though they of course were well paid) didn't get the big contracts...the geeked up jabronis that could hit 30 or 40 did. Most of the changes to the parks don't help with hitting for average (some changes, like increasing the amount of foul ground in play, actually hurts them), but the fences are all moved in these days, to the extent that a pop fly out in 1970 would be a HR in pretty much any ballpark today. Therein lies the big difference...parks are tailored for HRs, and basically nothing else.

As for Ruth and the Bronx, certainly there is something to be said about that, but a lot of big HR hitters (like Maris and Mantle) followed him in the same park, and they were never close to his numbers, so I don't think you can "blame the park" in that case.

[Wingate1217]

Originally Posted by Buckeyeskickbuttocks

BL - it's true what you say about the modern game where offense is concerned. However, isn't it equally as true to say that "old school" pitchers had an easier time of it? Bigger parks (Polo Grounds), higher mound (I think this is correct), more starts, less RP = more opps to win... and so on. I doubt anyone will ever come close to Cy Young's 511, or Chesbro's 41. I highly doubt we'll see a lower ERA than 1.04 (Brown) or even 1.12 (Gibson, Modern).

Of course, while today's parks appear hitter friendly, we still haven't seen a .400 hitter since 1941. So, I'd say they are simply more power friendly. Sign of the times, I guess.

Incidently, I would bet both A-Rod and Pujols end up passing Aaron, and I would bet Pujols ends up being the all time HR leader when all is said and done for his career (not bad for a guy who doesn't consider himself a power hitter). Of course, there's a long way to go, and either one of them could end up missing signifigant time with injuries... So...

Anyway, no one seems to worry that the house that Ruth built has one of the shortest fences in the majors to left (Dimensions: Left field: 280.58 (1923), 301 (1928), 312 (1976), 318 (1988)) and the Babe was a lefty.

I was on a plane a few years back and had the opportunity to talk to Bob Gibson during my trip. I asked him during his tenure on the ball field what was the one thing that changed during his career that affected baseball more than any other. He said from his perspective (being in the NL and a pitcher) that the lowering of the mound had a huge effect. Having said that he said today's pitchers are too soft as they give the inside of the plate to the hitter. It was not a knock on the pitchers but a direct criticism of the rules enforcement of today. He doubted that he could pitch in today's environment.
Don't fool yourself I believe Mr. Gibson would have done just fine....

[BB73]

Originally Posted by Buckeyeskickbuttocks

BL - it's true what you say about the modern game where offense is concerned. However, isn't it equally as true to say that "old school" pitchers had an easier time of it? Bigger parks (Polo Grounds)

The Polo Grounds weren't exactly a disadvantage for Mel Ott.

Ott hit 323 career homers at the Polo Grounds, and only 188 in all other parks combined.

But now that Barry has finally hit 715, can he just go away? Can the media please just quit talking about him, and stop acting like every at bat is must-see TV?

[tedginn05]

Originally Posted by Buckeyeskickbuttocks

Bigger parks (Polo Grounds), higher mound (I think this is correct), more starts, less RP = more opps to win... and so on. I doubt anyone will ever come close to Cy Young's 511, or Chesbro's 41. I highly doubt we'll see a lower ERA than 1.04 (Brown) or even 1.12 (Gibson, Modern).

Polo grounds had one of the shortest distances to left I have ever heard of. 250 feet. It was known to be easy to hit a ball out to left. Forget the fact that center was 500 out. Right wasn't very far out either, at 257 feet.

The distances at my HS field are 315 to left and right I think is 315 also.

1923-1957

• Left Field Line - 279 ft. (not posted)
• Left Field Upper Deck Overhang - about 250 ft.
• Shallow Left Center - 315 ft.
• Left Center 1 - 360 ft.
• Left Center 2 - 414 ft.
• Deep Left Center - 447 ft. left of bullpen curve
• Deep Left Center - 455 ft. right of bullpen curve
• Center Field - approx. 425 ft. (unpost