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Originally Posted by OCBucksFan
I find this argument funny actually, personally, I think Kobe will get it, simply for the reason that there's been years he deserved it but the hype was all Shaq. At this point in his career, he's playing some of his best basketball, he's merciless on the court, he's kept his mouth shut and they have won. Everyone uses the argument that the talent around Kobe has always been great, but he pretty much willed the Lakers into the playoffs for the past 2 seasons, he's doing a lot more to make his team better this year, and well, simply put, he's older than LeBron.
Will both eventually get one? Probably. And if the options were go to the finals or have Kobe MVP, I would take the chance for another Lakers championship. But I realize I am the minority, so flame away.
I honestly don't get the reasoning behind there being years when he deserved it, but since he didn't get it those years he should get it this year...If he should of got it in those years then he would of got it...I have also heard the same argument that people can't believe with as good a player as Kobe has been over his career that he has not won one yet...
Is all that true...Well probably, but the fact is that the MVP is a yearly award...Of course guys that have done it year in and year out will get the hype over guys that are just putting up the numbers...
He has willed his team the same way LBJ willed his team to the finals last year or into the second round, and almost taking out the Pistons in the playoffs the year before...
I would understand this if we were talking Kobe vs. Duncan or someone like that...But the parallels are the same between Kobe and LBJ in terms of what they have done for their team, but now since the Lakers have the best record Kobe deserves it...That is why you see the argument of having a better team, because LBJ is willing his teams to victories with guys around him that aren't near the cast of the Lakers, and head to head LBJ took it to Kobe...
And for all Kobe lovers, they don't bring up stats, because LBJ leads Kobe in all categories...I also heard Free throw shooting the other day from I think Skip Clueless, but little does he know that down the stretch clutch stats that Kobe shoots it at 75% to LBJ's 79%...
As for the older argument I don't buy that either because LBJ is not like a one hit wonder...He has been in the race as the younger guy the past 2 or 3 years...THe heisman award when they throw the younger card out there, it is a guy that is putting up his first big year like say when AP was a frosh, it was his first year, thus is not the case with LBJ...
I am not saying that Kobe isn't putting up an MVP type season I just find it hard to fathom the fact that a guy with better stats in every category, a supporting cast that isn't nearly as good, but willing his team to victories, and making the highlight plays and games that LBJ is doesn't win the MVP...
I honestly don't get the reasoning behind there being years when he deserved it, but since he didn't get it those years he should get it this year...If he should of got it in those years then he would of got it...I have also heard the same argument that people can't believe with as good a player as Kobe has been over his career that he has not won one yet...
Simply put, Shaq got it during the third championship, Kobe did more that year than Shaq did but because of who he was, Shaq got it. Dirk last year, IMO, should have gone to LBJ, but it didn't, it went to a person who really shouldn't have gotten it, but they did have a great regular season.
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Is all that true...Well probably, but the fact is that the MVP is a yearly award...Of course guys that have done it year in and year out will get the hype over guys that are just putting up the numbers...
Didn't Kobe lead the league in scoring two years in a row? Wasn't worth anything because the Lakers came into the playoffs with the 6th and 7th seeds.
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He has willed his team the same way LBJ willed his team to the finals last year or into the second round, and almost taking out the Pistons in the playoffs the year before...
I would understand this if we were talking Kobe vs. Duncan or someone like that...But the parallels are the same between Kobe and LBJ in terms of what they have done for their team, but now since the Lakers have the best record Kobe deserves it...That is why you see the argument of having a better team, because LBJ is willing his teams to victories with guys around him that aren't near the cast of the Lakers, and head to head LBJ took it to Kobe...
If you are going to use the argument of the team around Kobe, I am going to use the Argument of the overall records of both, and the fact that in the west, the Cavs would currently be sitting in 9th place. It's apples to Oranges, Bryant has shown, just has LBJ has, that he can put up those numbers whoever is around him, we just have the Mavs who will spend whatever it takes, the Suns who can put up a thousand points if you let them, the Spurs, and the Rockets are regular contenders that we have to play 4 times a year.
People act like that isn't anything, but look at the last 10 years championships, how many have gone to the west? How many of the finals were sweeps?
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And for all Kobe lovers, they don't bring up stats, because LBJ leads Kobe in all categories...I also heard Free throw shooting the other day from I think Skip Clueless, but little does he know that down the stretch clutch stats that Kobe shoots it at 75% to LBJ's 79%...
Kobe lead all scorers for two years in a row, he's put up the second highest points in NBA history at 82, should he have gotten it those years?
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As for the older argument I don't buy that either because LBJ is not like a one hit wonder...He has been in the race as the younger guy the past 2 or 3 years...THe heisman award when they throw the younger card out there, it is a guy that is putting up his first big year like say when AP was a frosh, it was his first year, thus is not the case with LBJ...
There's not a whole lot I have to this part of your argument, you're right, but the bottom line, it's a popularity contest, and LA gets a lot more exposure than Cleveland. Also, if you want to take it for what it actually stands for "Most Valuable Player" then it's pretty much a tie. If you take Byrant out of the Lakers right now, they miss the playoffs. The same can be said for LBJ.
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I am not saying that Kobe isn't putting up an MVP type season I just find it hard to fathom the fact that a guy with better stats in every category, a supporting cast that isn't nearly as good, but willing his team to victories, and making the highlight plays and games that LBJ is doesn't win the MVP...
Cleveland Record: 35/26 In the Eastern Conference.
Lakers Record: 43/18 in the Western Conference.
They are both deserving, I won't argue that, I didn't say "Kobe Deserves it more" I said I think Kobe will get it. LBJ is a great player, but the reality of it is that the Eastern Conference is seen as a lesser conference. That's why 7 of the last 10 MVP awards have been to Western Conference players, but it's hard to argue when the west has won 7 of the last 10 finals.
Posts: 14,677
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCBucksFan
Simply put, Shaq got it during the third championship, Kobe did more that year than Shaq did but because of who he was, Shaq got it. Dirk last year, IMO, should have gone to LBJ, but it didn't, it went to a person who really shouldn't have gotten it, but they did have a great regular season.
Not arguing that maybe Kobe didn't deserve it those years, but can you honestly answer the question who meant more to the team Kobe or shaq and answer Kobe then I think you are mistaken...As for Dirk last year that was a fluke and mainly due to them winning 67 games...Something the Lakers aren't going to sniff this year...
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Didn't Kobe lead the league in scoring two years in a row? Wasn't worth anything because the Lakers came into the playoffs with the 6th and 7th seeds.
He was not putting up the all around stats like LBJ is tho...Also his one year he was taking 27 shots/game...If LBJ took that many I think he would score 38 or so points...If he is taking 22 and shooting at about 50% and throw in an extra foul shot or so by getting fouled on one of those shots and say to add 5 shots, so 2.5 more shots along with 1 free throw puts him at 36pts...But then that would take away from him getting his team involved and the assts numbers...The thing that I can't stress enough is 3 guys in the history of the league have put up the numbers he is putting up...3 guys...
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If you are going to use the argument of the team around Kobe, I am going to use the Argument of the overall records of both, and the fact that in the west, the Cavs would currently be sitting in 9th place. It's apples to Oranges, Bryant has shown, just has LBJ has, that he can put up those numbers whoever is around him, we just have the Mavs who will spend whatever it takes, the Suns who can put up a thousand points if you let them, the Spurs, and the Rockets are regular contenders that we have to play 4 times a year.
Yes I understand this as well, but looking at LBJ being out for 6 games in which the Cavs went 0-6 their record would look much better...I know that is a reach, but LBJ has showed up big in big games...Much like he did head to head against Kobe and the Lakers...
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People act like that isn't anything, but look at the last 10 years championships, how many have gone to the west? How many of the finals were sweeps?
Really don't think that East/West should have much to do with the argument in terms of MVP...BTW the East top 5 are pretty solid with Boston, Detroit, Cleveland, Orlando, and Toronto...
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Kobe lead all scorers for two years in a row, he's put up the second highest points in NBA history at 82, should he have gotten it those years?
I think those numbers were kinda looked away from due to the number of shots that Kobe was taking...Especially 2 years ago...Last year I think that Kobe deserved to really be in the talks and could of been the guy...
I am not just saying that LBJ is the scoring leader and should win the mvp tho...It isn't just scoring, it is his scoring, assists, rebounds, clutch stats where he is leading everyone with scoring in the 4th quarter when it counts the most...
Kobe was scoring a lot but taking a ton of shots...27/game 2 years ago...LBJ is only taking 22 this year...Kobe is only at 20 this year, and that is why I think he is getting looked at more as he is not just shooting all the time, but letting the rest of the guys do some work...LBJ has always allowed his guys to do some work, even if they aren't the able to get it done...
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There's not a whole lot I have to this part of your argument, you're right, but the bottom line, it's a popularity contest, and LA gets a lot more exposure than Cleveland. Also, if you want to take it for what it actually stands for "Most Valuable Player" then it's pretty much a tie. If you take Byrant out of the Lakers right now, they miss the playoffs. The same can be said for LBJ.
I understand this argument as well, but if you have tuned into Sportscenter LBJ has got just as much love lately as Kobe...Also LBJ and the Cavs have 8 national games left on TNT, ESPN, ABC...Kobe and Lakers have 4...So while LA gets more love in terms of more media coverage...It isn't like Chris Paul and him not being seen...People are getting plenty of chances to see him play...
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Cleveland Record: 35/26 In the Eastern Conference.
Lakers Record: 43/18 in the Western Conference.
Like I said above take the games when LBJ didn't play and you have a different outlook here...Head to head LBJ and the Cavs are 2-0 against LA...The Lakers also have their toughest month of ball coming up this month...The Cavs have probably their easiest...Also there was one point in the season when the Cavs were without 5 of their top 7 players...One game when Damon Jones was the second best player against a playoff team and they still won...Billy Thomas was the first guy off the bench in that game...WHo??? Exactly...
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They are both deserving, I won't argue that, I didn't say "Kobe Deserves it more" I said I think Kobe will get it. LBJ is a great player, but the reality of it is that the Eastern Conference is seen as a lesser conference. That's why 7 of the last 10 MVP awards have been to Western Conference players, but it's hard to argue when the west has won 7 of the last 10 finals.
I agree that the Western conference is the tougher of the two conferences, but I don't think that always makes the MVP...Who has been worth the past couple years...Even when the Pistons and Heat won the finals neither of them had the player that dominated during the regular season...Billups and Wade both had great playoffs...Last years MVP couldn't even get it done in the first round against the 8th seed...
Around the NBA: Two-man MVP race?
It's Kobe, LeBron, but Paul possible
Sunday, March 9, 2008
BY Chris Beaven
Repository sports writer
Consider last week the start of closing arguments in the NBA's Great Debate of '08 ? LeBron or Kobe?
From Chamberlin-Russell to Magic-Bird, nothing sparks NBA interest like a debate of who is the game's best player. Kobe Bryant has held that unofficial title for several years ? though he has no MVP awards. LeBron James is making a big push this season to stake his claim.
After last week, it looks more and more likely one of the two will emerge as the MVP, though Hornets point guard Chris Paul remains a viable third candidate.
