Broncos boot Shanahan

[billmac91]

Originally Posted by NFBuck

I'm shocked Leftwich hasn't gotten more attention, he looked really good for the Stillers this season. Garcia is old as dirt, though maybe still effective. Losman and Boller belong on the scrap heep.

if you feel like Cutler is going to be a cry-baby all season, it may make sense to unload him for a first rounder. Denver could pick up Josh Freeman, possibly Mark Sanchez, or take a flyer on a guy like Nate Davis.

Jay Cutler doesn't seem like the type of person willing to fix a broken bridge. You can just tell he is incredibly immature. It may be worth it to go seperate ways.

Also, and I mention this all of the time when new NFL coaches come in.....they like to explode [censored] intentionally, so if things go bad they have the built in excuse of "I need time to install my plan". It's a guaranteed excuse for the team to suck...

[3074326]

Originally Posted by NFBuck

I'm shocked Leftwich hasn't gotten more attention, he looked really good for the Stillers this season. Garcia is old as dirt, though maybe still effective. Losman and Boller belong on the scrap heep.

I think all of them are a huge drop from Cutler. I'd take Garcia over the others, with Leftwich second.. Boller and Losman are career backups. Leftwich might be there already, but he did look good with the Steelers.

I figured McDaniels coaching Cutler would result in Cutler taking it to the next level. Apparently the opposite happened.. haha

[NFBuck]

Originally Posted by billmac91

if you feel like Cutler is going to be a cry-baby all season, it may make sense to unload him for a first rounder. Denver could pick up Josh Freeman, possibly Mat Sanchez, or take a flyer on a guy like Nate Davis.

Jay Cutler doesn't seem like the type of person willing to fix a broken bridge. You can just tell he is incredibly immature. It may be worth it to go seperate ways.

Also, and I mention this all of the time when new NFL coaches come in.....they like to explode [censored] intentionally, so if things go bad they have the built in excuse of "I need time to install my plan". It's a guaranteed excuse for the team to suck...

Wonder if they'd be interested in swapping 1st rounders and BQ or DA?

[3074326]

Originally Posted by billmac91

if you feel like Cutler is going to be a cry-baby all season, it may make sense to unload him for a first rounder. Denver could pick up Josh Freeman, possibly Mat Sanchez, or take a flyer on a guy like Nate Davis.

Jay Cutler doesn't seem like the type of person willing to fix a broken bridge. You can just tell he is incredibly immature. It may be worth it to go seperate ways.

Also, and I mention this all of the time when new NFL coaches come in.....they like to explode [censored] intentionally, so if things go bad they have the built in excuse of "I need time to install my plan". It's a guaranteed excuse for the team to suck...

Can't disagree with any of that, but that offense was borderline prolific last year. You could tell that Cutler to Marshall was going to be the next Manning to Harrison IMO. And they didn't even have a running game.

Immature or not, this is a huge problem for Denver. Cutler isn't handling it well at all, but McDaniels is at fault here. This shouldn't even be a situation.

[billmac91]

Originally Posted by 3074326

Can't disagree with any of that, but that offense was borderline prolific last year. You could tell that Cutler to Marshall was going to be the next Manning to Harrison IMO. And they didn't even have a running game.

Immature or not, this is a huge problem for Denver. Cutler isn't handling it well at all, but McDaniels is at fault here. This shouldn't even be a situation.

I don't know...it seems tricky to me. Wasn't PFT talking about Cutler requesting a trade before Denever started shopping him. Then it came out he was on the block, and he acted fake surprised and angry.

Regardless, the guy acts like a punk, and probably shouldn't talk about having a stronger arm than John Elway. Truthfully, I don't want him in Cleveland. I've had enough of rooting for guys I dislike.

[3074326]

I don't know what Cutler would have to gain by requesting a trade and then getting upset when they tried.

I didn't see what the big deal was with the Elway comment. He didn't say he was better. Just said his arm is stronger, which might be true.

It's a mess though. That's for sure. It's good for nobody when it's this public..

Clarifying the Manning to Harrison comparison, I was not trying to say that I think Cutler is the next Manning. I know someone will call me out on that. I was just referring to the great connection.

[OCBucksFan]

Originally Posted by 3074326

I don't know what Cutler would have to gain by requesting a trade and then getting upset when they tried.

I didn't see what the big deal was with the Elway comment. He didn't say he was better. Just said his arm is stronger, which might be true.

It's a mess though. That's for sure. It's good for nobody when it's this public..

Clarifying the Manning to Harrison comparison, I was not trying to say that I think Cutler is the next Manning. I know someone will call me out on that. I was just referring to the great connection.

Nobody is going to call you out Numby, we all know about your Cutler man crush.

Look, here's the deal, you have a new head coach, who wants to bring a winning mentality. You have a quarterback who's got a reputation as a whiner, and that reputation seems to be deserved. Now, you can try to get a quarterback with a winning attitude that will give you the chance to implement your system faster and move the team in a direction you want, so you take the chance.

These players are contracts, that's all they are, and at the end of the day it's about wins and losses for the money the owner is paying. You win, you sell tickets, you get TV kick backs, you get monday night games and playoff appearances, all that sells jerseys, and all of the other crap teams stores sell.

You lose, well, it's the opposite.

It is what it is, Cutler has this idea that he's untradable and no one is. Look at Montana, or Unitas, where did they finish their careers? Hell, since that might be too old for you, look at Favre.

Now, if Cutler wants to get over this, go in and show that it was a bad decision, then do it, win over the fans, win over the coaches, win over the media, right now he's not helping his career at all. That "bad seed" image will stick to you like glue, look at Winslow JR, his dad is one of the most beloved athletes in Sad Diego sports history, yet he pulls that "it's a war, I'm a soldier" bull[censored] and the first time he goes to SD, a town with a huge military population, boos ring down, and to this day he still can't get past that.

Players work for the team, the owners put the coaches in charge of the players. This guy makes too much money, he's got a [censored] poor record (sub .500) and hasn't even gotten his team to the playoffs. To me, that's like being a sales guy, and getting upset when you're not promoted to manager, yet, you haven't gotten a huge deal, sure, you've gotten a lot of small deals, but the big deals are where the big money is.

Cutler needs to shut his mouth, go to practice, get with the system, right now he's turning the fans and media against him, and he'll regret it, because everywhere he goes, the moment things start to fall apart, it will be his fault. Tell him to ask Ryan Leaf what happens when you pull this crybaby, it's not my fault, bull[censored].

[3074326]

Originally Posted by OCBucksFan

Nobody is going to call you out Numby, we all know about your Cutler man crush.

I like how I have man-crushes on the guys from non-Ohio teams who I decide to defend.

[OCBucksFan]

Originally Posted by 3074326

I like how I have man-crushes on the guys from non-Ohio teams who I decide to defend.

Numby, I feel it's best that we discuss your crushes in the LNDT, but I was curious if you read any of my posts beyond the first sentence

[3074326]

Originally Posted by OCBucksFan

Numby, I feel it's best that we discuss your crushes in the LNDT, but I was curious if you read any of my posts beyond the first sentence

I did, I was just pointing that out.

I'm getting my NHL 08 on, I'll respond later.

[powerlifter]

Originally Posted by OCBucksFan

Nobody is going to call you out Numby, we all know about your Cutler man crush.

Look, here's the deal, you have a new head coach, who wants to bring a winning mentality. You have a quarterback who's got a reputation as a whiner, and that reputation seems to be deserved. Now, you can try to get a quarterback with a winning attitude that will give you the chance to implement your system faster and move the team in a direction you want, so you take the chance.

These players are contracts, that's all they are, and at the end of the day it's about wins and losses for the money the owner is paying. You win, you sell tickets, you get TV kick backs, you get monday night games and playoff appearances, all that sells jerseys, and all of the other crap teams stores sell.

You lose, well, it's the opposite.

It is what it is, Cutler has this idea that he's untradable and no one is. Look at Montana, or Unitas, where did they finish their careers? Hell, since that might be too old for you, look at Favre.

Now, if Cutler wants to get over this, go in and show that it was a bad decision, then do it, win over the fans, win over the coaches, win over the media, right now he's not helping his career at all. That "bad seed" image will stick to you like glue, look at Winslow JR, his dad is one of the most beloved athletes in Sad Diego sports history, yet he pulls that "it's a war, I'm a soldier" bull[censored] and the first time he goes to SD, a town with a huge military population, boos ring down, and to this day he still can't get past that.

Players work for the team, the owners put the coaches in charge of the players. This guy makes too much money, he's got a [censored] poor record (sub .500) and hasn't even gotten his team to the playoffs. To me, that's like being a sales guy, and getting upset when you're not promoted to manager, yet, you haven't gotten a huge deal, sure, you've gotten a lot of small deals, but the big deals are where the big money is.

Cutler needs to shut his mouth, go to practice, get with the system, right now he's turning the fans and media against him, and he'll regret it, because everywhere he goes, the moment things start to fall apart, it will be his fault. Tell him to ask Ryan Leaf what happens when you pull this crybaby, it's not my fault, bull[censored].

Cutler stat's
3rd in the league in completions(warner,brees)
3rd in the league in yards (warner,brees)
3rd in league in YPG's (warner,brees)
7th in the league in TD's
2nd in the league in INT's (Farve *shock*)

He will be in his 4th year at Denver. Those guys you listed were all towards the end of their years. Their respected legacy was still there,but not physically. Cutler already has proved he's one of the better qb's in the league. He can't be another Ryan Leaf.

It's obvious that he turns the ball over,and makes bad choices at times. Then again, at times he pinpoints passes on the run with better accuracy then anyone in the league. The shot from Mcdaniels about "Criticism" is spot on. He needs to improve,but he has better tools,then most qb's in the league. There is no way they will get their value trading Jay Cutler.

Towards the end of the season the team was caked with injuries. Rotating Hillis (5th string) rb's with a horrid Selvin Young(when he wasn't injured)...They had multiple receivers out in multiple games,and he forced so many bad passes it was ridiculous,but he still played with passion to try to win.There wasn't a lot more he could do then force bad passes,and make some good ones.They couldn't move the ball any other way. The team that had been in first place nearly all year wasn't the same healthy team that dropped 4 of their last 6,and it was obvious.

Firing Shanny was the beginning of all of this period. Although,cutler ran the offense,there really hasn't been a chance to consider mcdaniels's style before there was a trade rumor. The coach has had plenty of opportunities to clear this up from the beginning,and didn't. Mcdaniels is a 32 year old coach with no head coaching experience. When the first thing you hear about him is how he is trying to trade a proven qb for a guy that as of right now, is proven to be no more then a one year wonder. Cassel was in a proven system,that Brady owns,and excels in. There was no certainty of building that in Denver. Cutler is the closet thing to a working cog in a super bowl team they have...There were so many problems on defense that could have been attacked before ever mentioning him. I'm not saying he's not being estrogen filled about it,because it has gotten to the point he is,but everything about this could have been done more professional on both sides.

[OCBucksFan]

Originally Posted by powerlifter

Cutler stat's
3rd in the league in completions(warner,brees)
3rd in the league in yards (warner,brees)
3rd in league in YPG's (warner,brees)
7th in the league in TD's
2nd in the league in INT's (Farve *shock*)

He will be in his 4th year at Denver. Those guys you listed were all towards the end of their years. Their respected legacy was still there,but not physically. Cutler already has proved he's one of the better qb's in the league. He can't be another Ryan Leaf.

I never argued his numbers or said he was bad, I said he hadn't won anything, which is true. Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, all the arm strength in the world isn't worth jack if at the end of the season you are watching the playoffs.

And he may not be another Leaf in player calibre, but if you start playing the blame game, the media will eat you alive and you will get it from every angle. I said ask Ryan Leaf what happens when you blame others, fact is, if you're not winning, your job is secure as yours or mine is.

It's obvious that he turns the ball over,and makes bad choices at times. Then again at times he pinpoints passes on the run with better accuracy in the league. The shot from Mcdaniels about "Criticism" is spot on. He needs to improve,but he has better tools,then most qb's in the league. There is no way they will get their value trading Jay Cutler.

They get the value if he's going to be more harm than good. Right now, he's putting himself in a position where it's him VS the head coach. As I have said, he can go, play and shut everyone up, or sit and whine about it, this isn't kickball during recess, this is a multi million dollar game which he's paid a lot to play. If he wants out, then he's going to suffer the damage to his reputation that goes along with it.

Towards the end of the season the team was caked with injuries. Rotating Hillis (5th string) rb's with a horrid Selvin Young(when he wasn't injured)...They had multiple receivers out in mutiple games,and he forced so many bad passes it was ridiculous,but he still played with passion to try to win.There wasn't a lot more he could do then force bad passes,and make some good ones.They couldn't move the ball any other way. The team that had been in first place nearly all year wasn't the same healthy team that dropped 4 of their last 6,and it was obvious.

I am not buying your excuses here, if it was my team, I would say what it was "the team fell apart" and he didn't help. He shouldn't have won the first time VS San Diego, they got that game gifted. They had a losing mentality, any new coach has to come in and instill confidence in that team, if he wants to be part of that, then he should show up, but it is what it is, he's an employee of the Broncos, and if wants to play this card, he needs to be prepared to accept the consequences, he might end up on a horrible team, or worse, he may find himself sitting on the bench til right after the trade deadline and cut.

[BuckeyePride]

Denver did have one of the worst D in the league. So I wouldn't blame all of their loses on Cutler. To me?he has made enough progress in his career to label him a rising star in the league.

[powerlifter]

Originally Posted by OCBucksFan

I never argued his numbers or said he was bad, I said he hadn't won anything, which is true. Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, all the arm strength in the world isn't worth jack if at the end of the season you are watching the playoffs.

And he may not be another Leaf in player calibre, but if you start playing the blame game, the media will eat you alive and you will get it from every angle. I said ask Ryan Leaf what happens when you blame others, fact is, if you're not winning, your job is secure as yours or mine is.

Everything from the beginning on BOTH sides has seemed unprofessional. Mcdaniels had several opportunities to smooth things over as has Cutler.

They get the value if he's going to be more harm than good. Right now, he's putting himself in a position where it's him VS the head coach. As I have said, he can go, play and shut everyone up, or sit and whine about it, this isn't kickball during recess, this is a multi million dollar game which he's paid a lot to play. If he wants out, then he's going to suffer the damage to his reputation that goes along with it.

There is no one QB that can replace him,that someone would be willing to cough up. If you are trying to start building a franchise,and have two or 3 legit "franchise players" those are the guys you keep happiest. If it was Mike Shanahan with trade talks it would have been totally different from the start. Mcdaniels is of right now,a nobody. If he wants to win,he keeps Cutler in Denver. There is no one in the draft of Cutler's caliber. If it was next year's draft,then I could see something big happening. They aren't going to lose,because Jay Cutler is the qb at Denver. It's hard to say the same with the latter.


I am not buying your excuses here, if it was my team, I would say what it was "the team fell apart" and he didn't help. He shouldn't have won the first time VS San Diego, they got that game gifted. They had a losing mentality, any new coach has to come in and instill confidence in that team, if he wants to be part of that, then he should show up, but it is what it is, he's an employee of the Broncos, and if wants to play this card, he needs to be prepared to accept the consequences, he might end up on a horrible team, or worse, he may find himself sitting on the bench til right after the trade deadline and cut.

Here are some random stats:
Jay Cutler is 14-7 (.667) when the Broncos give up less than 30 points. He is 3-13 (.188) when they give up 30 or more points, including 3-6 (.333) this year. That is 16 of 37 games Cutler has played in, where the Broncos gave up 30 or more.

Here are the career records, followed by their records in the Jay Cutler era, of some of the top NFL QBs when their teams give up 30+ points:

Tom Brady 5-8 (.384), 1-1 from 2006 - 2008;
Peyton Manning 9-25 (.265), 2-3 from 2006 - 2008;
Kurt Warner 6-22 (.214), 1-8 from 2006 - 2008;
Ben Roethlisberger 2-10 (.167), 1-7 from 2006 - 2008;
Brett Favre 8-42 (.160), 2-9 from 2006 - 2008;
Donovan McNabb 3-16 (.158), 0-8 from 2006 - 2008;
Phillip Rivers 1-8 (.111), benchwarmer in 2004 & 2005;
Eli Manning 1-16 (.059), 1-10 from 2006 - 2008;
Matt Cassel 0-4;

Broncos Defensive Rankings
30th in Points Per Game
29th in Yards Allowed Per Game
26th in Passing yards Per Game
27th in Rushing Yards Per Game

It will take a combination of maturity,and talent for denver to win. I heard he is supposed to be attending an involunteery team meeting monday.

[OCBucksFan]

Originally Posted by powerlifter

It will take a combination of maturity,and talent for denver to win. I heard he is supposed to be attending an involunteery team meeting monday.

I read your response, and I don't have a lot I can argue. Look, my whole point is this, if he wants to make this work, he can, McDaniel did what he thought would be best, and it didn't work. More than likely, in earlier days it never would have been known, but with the media what it is, things leak. Hell, when the Chargers had Rivers and Brees there was talk of trading Rivers for a 3rd round pick 1 year.

We'll see what happens monday, but the worst thing he can do is turn the fans and media against him. Look at Philip Rivers, the guy has had an incident where he was talking trash with Raiders fans and when he got into it with Cutler a couple years ago, ESPN has been on character assasination mode since, if he hadn't put his career at risk in the playoffs a couple years ago against the Patriots, odds are he would still be the standard for "The Evil Quarterback" in the NFL, and all he's done is make the playoffs every year he's started...