Cleveland Browns (2009 Season)

[NFBuck]

Bernie is a legend in Cleveland, but I'm not sure I'd want him in any kind of authoritative position. A consulting position? Sure. Anything more than that, I don't know...

[schwab]

Bernie was not exactly fleet-of-foot, but he held the most-passes-between-INT's record for a long time, not sure if he still does. To the point, he was adept at getting rid of the ball at the same time, wasn't he? I was young, I have a poster and vague memories of #19, but we aren't dealing with concussions are we? I don't remember him taking many solid shots. Anyone...

[NFBuck]

Originally Posted by schwab

Bernie was not exactly fleet-of-foot, but he held the most-passes-between-INT's record for a long time, not sure if he still does. To the point, he was adept at getting rid of the ball at the same time, wasn't he? I was young, I have a poster and vague memories of #19, but we aren't dealing with concussions are we? I don't remember him taking many solid shots. Anyone...

He was a gangly runner, but I don't remember him taking a lot of hits. He usually played behind very stout lines until the end of his tenure. I think most of his injuries were of the arm/shoulder variety IIRC. He was the consumate game manager. I miss having a QB like that.

[kippy1040]

Originally Posted by OH10

Is it just me or does Bernie sound drunk when he's doing the preseason games? I hear him on the radio and he just sounds drunk. He has the bankruptcy issues as well. Is he really a guy we want involved in important decisions for this team?

I cannot sit in judgement of anyone unless i have been in his shoes. True and granted, he (in his younger years) had some sort of sensability in how to handle money. Down in Boca Raton and in the Ft. Lauderdale area, he was well into stocks and bonds & doing quite well for quite a few years, until he started going overboard with some of his investments and thats when things began to get out of hand with him and his wife Babette. Finally she had all she could put up with and filed for divorce. This is when life for Bernie started to go down hill. Maybe he tried to deal with it thru alcohol and that maybe escalated the situation beyond his control. But one thing i do know is that he always had compassion for the people of Ohio and especially in the Cleveland area. And for Randy lerner to bring up his name in these trying times for all Cleveland Brown fans tells me that he thinks that Bernie Kosar has a good sense of what Cleveland Brown football is all about and what it CAN BE AGAIN. It may be a long shot but like i said before - we have reached the bottom of the pit. Why not give him a shot at some sort of leadership within the organization to get uS going in the right direction again. GO BROWNS.

[LitlBuck]

If Mangini is going to have a say, and he says that he will, then the hiring of a GM or whatever position Lerner creates, I highly doubt if he will approve of Bernie because if he would butt heads with Bernie he would be butting heads with the majority of Cleveland Browns fans and Lerner would have to let Mangini go. I just can't believe that he fired Kokinis and not Mangini.

Regarding the post above about taking Browns money and putting it into his soccer team, I think he has the right to spend his money any way he wants. I don't think you can tell any owner what to do with their profits if they make them.

[Bucklion]

Good article on this horse abortion of an organization (without calling it that):

Another 'do-over' on horizon for perpetually rebuilding Browns

[LitlBuck]

Originally Posted by Bucklion

Good article on this horse abortion of an organization (without calling it that):

Another 'do-over' on horizon for perpetually rebuilding Browns

The more articles I read the more I have to think that Lerner has to lead Mangini go or he will lose the little respect that he does have amongst all people in the NFL. I mean even if he doesn't know all can't he see what is going on.

[LitlBuck]

Cleveland.com

Former Browns coach Marty Schottenheimer said on his Sirius NFL radio show that he's not interested in a consultant role with the Browns.

"I don't even see that kind of a role for me," he said. "I'm not familiar enough with what they have in terms of their front office. Let somebody else do that. It's really a very unusual circumstance and it's going to take some dramatic measures in my mind to be able to get the thing headed in the right direction.

"The bottom line for them right now is they don't have a real good football team. They're not playing even to the level that the talent is expressed and it's going to be a very, very difficult circumstance."

He said the Browns should be concentrating on trying win games instead of firing their general manager in midseason.

"You need to leave some sense of stability at least through this season because players that are there signed to long term contracts are thinking, 'What in the world is going on here?,'" he said. "You worry about the reaction of your players and, believe me, let's not make any mistake about this: That feeling that a player has about his organization is an integral part of their ability to perform at the highest level."

[kippy1040]

I think schottenheimer makes alot of sense in his comments and its sad that he does not want to get involved in the organization again. I sometimes wonder if its because of the attitude of the some of the professional football players in the market today, compared to what they had when he was coaching at Cleveland and in Kansas City. He came oh so close with Cleveland in getting to the Super Bowl. But that was along time ago and our times have changed since then. The State of Ohio is a haven and a solid bed rock for good quality athletic football players. I wonder how many of those kind of players would give thier eyeteeth to play for the Browns. I know its about the dollar and the life expectantcy of a football player is not what it use to be, but i think you have to start with an idea such as this to start a good solid foundation for Cleveland Brown Football. Thats only my opinion but i'll bet that there are others out there thay may agree with me.

[LitlBuck]

Every time I read another article about the Browns some more screwed up I find the organization. This is truly embarrassing.

Cleveland.com

Source tells SI.com that George Kokinis and Eric Mangini didn't see eye to eye from the start with the Cleveland Browns
By Starting Blocks
November 06, 2009, 1:29PM

SI.com took a close look into the firing of former Cleveland Browns general manager George Kokinis. What it found is very interesting to say the least.
Reporter Don Banks writes that Kokinis felt marginalized in the Browns front office. Kokinis believed he would have final say over Browns personnel decisions, but it turned out that he did not. And Eric Mangini dominated all issues regarding player acquisition and evaluation.

It was so bad, a source told Banks, that Kokinis didn't know that Braylon Edwards was being traded until it happened.

"He thought he was getting the job of a lifetime working with one of his best friends, but it wasn't that at all,'' said a league source who is familiar with both Kokinis and the Browns organization. "It was working for Eric Mangini, not with him. Eric was in charge of everything, and George resented that. It wasn't the job he thought he'd taken. It wasn't the partnership as he thought it would be. And he would have never taken it if he thought it was going to go that way."

Banks also writes that Kokinis and Mangini were on the same page when it came to building a team, to a degree. But Mangini is influenced by Bill Belichick and Bill Parcells, coaches who want their own guys. They want players who know their system, even at the expense of good young players. SI's source says:

"So they sign a bunch of old Jets that Mangini had in New York. And they trade Kellen Winslow, and stay away from [drafting] Mark Sanchez, and trade Braylon Edwards for a bunch of Jets cast-offs. Just Jets cast-offs. They just had a different way of doing things, and it caused issues.

[NFBuck]

Originally Posted by LitlBuck

Every time I read another article about the Browns some more screwed up I find the organization. This is truly embarrassing.

Cleveland.com

An article detailing goat sacrifices in Al Lerner's office every Sunday morning wouldn't surprise me at this point. Like I said, this outfit has reached Oakland Raiders level disfunction. It should be an interesting offseason to say the least. I really don't expect Mangini to get the axe, but he should be on a very short leash come next season. He showed he can win in NY, but there is such a dearth of talent here, I don't see how he can salvage his job much past next year. If, big IF, they show some improvement next year, maybe there's reason for some optimism, but who knows.

A positive, is they have 11 draft picks. With as many holes as there are, that can be a big help. One absolute necessity is to get a good football mind in here as a team president/GM. Mangini is losing power, so he won't have free reign like he appeared to have this past offseason. Checks and balances are a must and a GM/President operating independently of Mangini would be a big thing. Head coaches rarely succeed with all the power. Look at the Butch Davis fiasco. Another positive from this whole fiasco is the end of the ManKok monicker. God, that was awful.

[ulukinatme]

Originally Posted by LitlBuck

Every time I read another article about the Browns some more screwed up I find the organization. This is truly embarrassing.

Cleveland.com

Some interesting points in the article, sounds like Kokinis isn't exactly sticking up for his good friend, the Mangenius, anymore. I could care less that Braylon was traded, the guy was supposed to be our #1 receiver and he dropped very catchable balls. You can't do that as a professional, you only get so many excuses. Winslow, on the other hand, I felt they should have patched things with him and retained him. The guy had better hands than most of our receivers, maybe all of them that we had then. He brought up a legitamate concern regarding the staph infections, and people started labeling him a trouble maker, then traded him.

[tsteele316]

Originally Posted by ulukinatme

Some interesting points in the article, sounds like Kokinis isn't exactly sticking up for his good friend, the Mangenius, anymore. I could care less that Braylon was traded, the guy was supposed to be our #1 receiver and he dropped very catchable balls. You can't do that as a professional, you only get so many excuses. Winslow, on the other hand, I felt they should have patched things with him and retained him. The guy had better hands than most of our receivers, maybe all of them that we had then. He brought up a legitamate concern regarding the staph infections, and people started labeling him a trouble maker, then traded him.

winslow will never make it through that contract in tampa. the fact that he's on one leg is why he's gone, period. resigning him would have been beyond stupid.

[CookyPuss]

Source: Cleveland Browns owner to reach out to Mike Holmgren - ESPN

Holmgren is one of at least four names on Lerner's wish list, though he is considered the top target. The others are former New York Giants general manager Ernie Accorsi, Atlanta Falcons president Rich McKay and former Packers general manager Ron Wolf.

[fanaticbuckeye]

I have heard people blush over Rich McKay. I think I would like Holmgren as GM, but not sure about GM AND HC (not sure that is being speculated, just saying).