Cleveland Browns (2009 Season)

[billmac91]

Originally Posted by Piney

FIFY

Seriously this team needs LBs in the worst way, basically a whole new starting LC corp. Free agency can grab 1-2 LBs, but we also need to draft one, two... 4-5. Curry is #1 on my draft board and from all accounts he should be there for us to take and be the best value.

Wanting Jenkins is nothing more than the homer in all of us. While grabbing another CB would be nice, this team has more pressing needs. Besides all 4 LB positions this teams needs RG/RT, a 2nd WR (or a #1 WR if Edwards is dealt) a RB to take over for Lewis when he proves he is toast and might as well add a few more WRs as after Edwards we have nothing. And some young DEs.

This team would probable be better off grabbing a veteran CB versus drafting one high.

The success rate of CB's is infinitely higher than LB's. You have to teach LB's how to play in the scheme, and evaluating LB's isn't nearly as straight forward as CB's.

I'd rather take the sure bet on Malcolm, know he's going to be productive, b/c almost every first CB off of the board in the last 7-10 years has produced, and grab a FA LB who already knows how to play in a 3-4 defense.

And CB is abolutely a position of need. Our secondary has been horrid. Drafting Malcolm is like drafting for 2 positions b/c you also have your new nickle-back in Brandon McDonald or Eric Wright. And it'd be huge to have a CB on the field at all times that can tackle. McDonald and Wright are such awful tacklers and outside runs could go to either side of the field without any concern for who was out there.

[Bucks21]

IMO Detroit would not even consider any trade for Calvin Johnson period unless it involved like two firsts and a proven player. He is just too good, its not going to happen.

[3074326]

Are there legs to this Calvin Johnson thing or is it just wishful thinking? I feel like I've heard this more than a few times.

Originally Posted by Bucks21

IMO Detroit would not even consider any trade for Calvin Johnson period unless it involved like two firsts and a proven player. He is just too good, its not going to happen.

Agree.

[NFBuck]

Originally Posted by billmac91

The success rate of CB's is infinitelyhigher than LB's. You have to teach LB's how to play in the scheme, and evaluating LB's isn't nearly as straight forward as CB's.

I'd rather take the sure bet on Malcolm, know he's going to be productive, b/c almost every first CB off of the board in the last 7-10 years has produced, and grab a FA LB who already knows how to play in a 3-4 defense.

And CB is abolutely a position of need. Our secondary has been horrid. Drafting Malcolm is like drafting for 2 positions b/c you also have your new nickle-back in Brandon McDonald or Eric Wright. And it'd be huge to have a CB on the field at all times that can tackle. McDonald and Wright are such awful tacklers and outside runs could go to either side of the field without any concern for who was out there.

Exactly. The success rate with LB's is very iffy in the draft. A.J. looked like as much a sure thing as anybody, but he's been, sorry to say it, pretty ordinary in GB thus far. I said earlier in the thread, shutdown corners with the all around game of MJ don't come around very often and when one does, you grab him. Especially when it's already a position of need. Wright may very well be an adequate-to-good CB eventually, but McDonald got consistently abused last season. If they don't grab MJ, I'm gonna have a hard time giving a [censored] about this franchise anymore.

[LitlBuck]

I have to disagree. Even though I love Malcom we cannot expect any CB to cover a NFL WR if we do not get a pass rush. If Curry it is not available at #5 from everything that I have read we would take Brown out of FSU or O... out of Texas. I have seen where Curry might not only be able to play OLB but also might be able to play ILB. Hopefully, Smith, DB, Utah will be available when the Browns pick in the second round if we are unable to draft down.

I have also seen some mocks saying that if Green, Iowa is available in the second round we should take a good look at him but I think we need to spend the first two rounds on defense unless we get some additional picks.

We do not have much cap space so the number of quality FAs and that we will be able to bring in will be minimal.

[NFBuck]

Originally Posted by 3074326

Are there legs to this Calvin Johnson thing or is it just wishful thinking? I feel like I've heard this more than a few times.

Wishful thinking. No way is Detroit trading away a cornerstone player for a busted QB, stonehands and a bunch of other spare parts.

[NFBuck]

Originally Posted by LitlBuck

I have to disagree. Even though I love Malcom we cannot expect any CB to cover a NFL WR if we do not get a pass rush. If Curry it is not available at #5 from everything that I have read we would take Brown out of FSU or O... out of Texas. I have seen where Curry might not only be able to play OLB but also might be able to play ILB. Hopefully, Smith, DB, Utah will be available when the Browns pick in the second round if we are unable to draft down.

I have also seen some mocks saying that if Green, Iowa is available in the second round we should take a good look at him but I think we need to spend the first two rounds on defense unless we get some additional picks.

We do not have much cap space so the number of quality FAs and that we will be able to bring in will be minimal.

Doesn't matter how good your LB's are when your CB's can't cover [censored] or tackle. McDonald was abused by capable recievers. Like Billmac said, drafting MJ takes care of a couple of problems with one pick. I can see there are two camps and we'll probably never agree. I just think shutdown corners are much harder to come by than a good LB and when one is available, you grab him.

[3074326]

Originally Posted by NFBuck

Wishful thinking. No way is Detroit trading away a cornerstone player for a busted QB, stonehands and a bunch of other spare parts.

Didn't figure. Now I just wonder why I keep hearing it (not only on BP, I hear it in RL too).

[NFBuck]

Originally Posted by 3074326

Didn't figure. Now I just wonder why I keep hearing it (not only on BP, I hear it in RL too).

Browns fans can be pretty delusional. It's not like we have much to celebrate on the field, so we concoct different trade scenarios to keep the bad thoughts away.

[jlb1705]

Originally Posted by LitlBuck

I have seen where Curry might not only be able to play OLB but also might be able to play ILB.

Unless he can play both at once, I'd rather have Jenkins.

I think organizations that don't have their heads up their rear ends stand just as good a chance of finding good LBs in rounds 2-5 as they do in the first round. I'm not sure I can say the same about CBs of Jenkins' caliber.

Heck, I'd draft him based on this: Shawn Springs, Antoine Winfield, Ahmed Plummer, Nate Clements & Chris Gamble. You don't often find a dud when you pick Ohio State's best CB.

[ArmyVet83]

Originally Posted by NFBuck

Wishful thinking. No way is Detroit trading away a cornerstone player for a busted QB, stonehands and a bunch of other spare parts.

Agree it is wishful thinking. Maybe if Matt Millen was still around it could have been pulled off.

But I am hoping that they make some draft day trades (or before) because the cap is thin and they need some young and capable talent infused into the franchise. Here's to hoping.

[tsteele316]

Originally Posted by billmac91

The success rate of CB's is infinitelyhigher than LB's. You have to teach LB's how to play in the scheme, and evaluating LB's isn't nearly as straight forward as CB's.

I'd rather take the sure bet on Malcolm, know he's going to be productive, b/c almost every first CB off of the board in the last 7-10 years has produced, and grab a FA LB who already knows how to play in a 3-4 defense.

And CB is abolutely a position of need. Our secondary has been horrid. Drafting Malcolm is like drafting for 2 positions b/c you also have your new nickle-back in Brandon McDonald or Eric Wright. And it'd be huge to have a CB on the field at all times that can tackle. McDonald and Wright are such awful tacklers and outside runs could go to either side of the field without any concern for who was out there.

1. there is no such thing as a sure thing.

2. deangelo hall, dunta robinson, pac man jones and antrel rolle say hello. there hasn't been a cb in the top 10 of the draft since the latter two 2 were picked.

3. the earliest any cb has been taken in the draft in the last 3 years has been #11. There have been 4 safeties taken in the top 10 in that time. in fact you have to got back to dallas picking terence newman at #5 in 2003 to find a top 10 cb that has been anything short of a failure.

4. cleveland cannot stop the run or rush the qb. adding a cb is a band-aid on a bullet wound for that defense.

5. given 1-4, taking a cb at #5 is not a good move to put it politely.

[jlb1705]

PacMan is not the best way to support that argument. He's an excellent player and from that standpoint was very much worth the high pick used on him. He just has a 10-cent head. He wouldn't have got this many chances if he wasn't good.

I certainly don't think the Browns should look past a player like Jenkins because PacMan is a dumbass.

[Piney]

Originally Posted by NFBuck

Doesn't matter how good your LB's are when your CB's can't cover [censored] or tackle. McDonald was abused by capable recievers.

Or since our LBs sucked so bad and we had NO pass rush we found out our CBs can't cover for the 5 minutes the QB had time to drink a beer, read the morning funnies and then throw to an open WR?

It seemed that happened a heck of alot more than a quick pass where our CB was beaten.

[billmac91]

Originally Posted by tsteele316

1. there is no such thing as a sure thing.

2. deangelo hall, dunta robinson, pac man jones and antrel rolle say hello. there hasn't been a cb in the top 10 of the draft since the latter two 2 were picked.

3. the earliest any cb has been taken in the draft in the last 3 years has been #11. There have been 4 safeties taken in the top 10 in that time. in fact you have to got back to dallas picking terence newman at #5 in 2003 to find a top 10 cb that has been anything short of a failure.

4. cleveland cannot stop the run or rush the qb. adding a cb is a band-aid on a bullet wound for that defense.

5. given 1-4, taking a cb at #5 is not a good move to put it politely.

CB's taken in first since 2000:

2000 - Ahmed Plummer
2001 - Nate Clements, Will Allen,
2002 - Quentin Jammer, Phillip Buchanon, Lito Sheppard, Mike Rumpf
2003 - Terrance Newman, Marcus Trufant, Andre Woolfolk, Sammy Davis, Nnambi Asomugha
2004 - DeAngelo Hall, Dunta Robertson, Ahmad Carrol, Chris Gamble
2005 - Adam Jones, Antrel Rolle, Carlos Rogers, Fabian Washington, Marlin Jackson
2006 - Tye Hill, Antonio Cromartie, Jonathon Joseph, Kelly Jennings
2007 - Darrelle Revis, Leon Hall, Aaron Ross
2008 - Leodis McKelvin, Dominique Rogers-Cromartie, Aqib Talib, Mike Jenkins, Antoine Cason

I don't see too many flat out busts on that list. And the guys that did bust, didn't lack the ability, they lacked it between the ears. Malcolm isn't lacking anything between the ears, and is about as high character as you can get.

In the case of Antrel Rolle, he's become a solid safety....something Jenkins can do if necessary, although he's going to be a stud.

I'm all for Malcolm, a big name LB in Free Agency, and sliding McDonald down to Nickel.

I'd really rather not have to teach a rookie our LB scheme, and maybe have to sit him a year like Vernon, when you can get production tomorrow out of Malcolm.

I can also see the other side of this argument, I'd just rather take a CB and turn an awful unit into something decent in 1 pick. Malcolm can do that.