Cleveland Browns (2009 Season)

[NFBuck]

Originally Posted by mh20

I agree with almost everything that you said, with the exception of the Braylon can't take over a game line. Braylon can take over a game, but he can also disappear in games for stretches.

I think a coach like Mangini is exactly what Braylon needs. He needs a coach that won't put up with his b.s. and that will challenge him. I just think that a player with Braylon's personality doesn't mix well with a lax coach like Crennel. I think he needs somebody like Mangini. It's Mangini's way or the highway.

Braylon can be a great receiver in the NFL, and while Brandon Marshall currently is a great receiver in the NFL, I do not believe that he or any player is worth the baggage. Say what you want about Moss or T.O., but even their off-field baggage isn't as serious as Marshall's.

If Braylon can learn to stop dropping [censored]ing passes, he can be a force. Problem is, he hasn't done that. Even in his big 2007 season, he still had the dropsies and it's very apparent now that his numbers were buoyed by solid QB play and a wide open offense. I don't know if we'll have either this year.

[buckiprof]

Originally Posted by LitlBuck

Upon further review, I have just looked at Marshall's stats and in the last two years he has caught over 100 passes for over 1000 yards and the guy is only entering his 4th season and is only 25 years old. He has had contract issues with Denver and perhaps a change in his environment along with a coaching change might help him. Getting him might also give us the opportunity to look at a trade for Edwards. If we know that we could move Edwards, I would be willing to give up a #2 draft choice along with Cribbs.

I appreciate the further review you did, but I made my comments well aware of what Marshall has done the past 2 seasons in Denver. While I agree that sometimes a change in scenery can help some individuals along the lines of being a better team player etc., what I don't think can change due to a simple change in environment is one's character. And Marshall has some off the field issues that indicate some flaws in his character that will not change. It is who he is.

Besides, IMO I think all of this may be moot. By looking at the type of person that team Mangini drafted this year, high character, hard working, and fairly intelligent seem to be qualities this year's draftees share. Why would team Mangini run counter to this by getting a problem in Marshall? Hell, if they wanted to, they could have drafted Mauluga. He has some off the field issues and some circles say that those issues were one reason why the team Mangini steered clear of him.

[LitlBuck]

I found this article pretty interesting. I had sort of forgotten all about Hadnot. Plus it eliminates my concerns about Steinbach

Cleveland.com

Position Battle: Offensive Line
Posted by Nick Diligente June 18, 2009 01:31AM
Categories: The Optimist

As you read this, remember that I am "The Optimist", my glass is always half full so take it easy with commenting on my observations cause they will be biased, but I will argue my point. I am going to say hands down there is not another offensive line in the NFL that I'd rather have than the Cleveland Browns. Eric Mangini has walked in to a new head coach's wet dream. The offensive line is stacked with guys who can play multiple positions, guys who have made a pro bowl, veterans who have played with great offenses, and a Fox Sports "Top Franchise Player Under 30 years old".

Since we all read left to right let's start on the left side of the offensive line. Joe Thomas. There is not much more to say about a 25 year old 2 year pro with back-to-back pro-bowl appearances blocking the blind side of your franchise quarterback. Next to him WILL be Eric Steinbach. He is a Pro Bowl alternate who has starter 78 of 79 games in his career. When healthy he is an integral part of this offense. He was a big key component of the electric offense we had in 2007.

In the center of the offensive line will be Alex Mack. I predict Mack will immediately start over Hank Fraley. Think of it this way, Fraley and Mack has had the same amount of time with the new Mangini offense. The last time Mangini was put in the same situation he opted for the rookie as well. Mack is a more physical center who can match up against the destructive nose tackles the AFC North has to offer. Not only that but this kid is a MANgenius. He was said to be the smartest player in the draft, and scored extremely high in a Mangini version of the wonderlic test. Fraley however is great to have on this team. He will be able to start/play at either the center or guard on any given Sunday, and said he is pleased to help Alex Mack grow. Fraley would still start for many teams in the NFL, we have him for depth.

Before we go ahead and decide the right side of the offensive line let's take a look at the choices you have. Hank Fraley we already mentioned. Floyd "Porkchop" Womack is a 6'4" 328 beast. He can control the offensive line with just pure size, which is why Mangini grabbed him. John St. Claire was the starting right tackle for the Chicago Bears. He has been in the NFL for 10 years and has started 55 of 108 games. The Chicago Bears even offered him more money to stay with them and he declined. Rex Hadnot was the starting right guard for a Dolphins team that yielded only 26 sacks in 2005, fourth lowest in NFL history. He has started and played in every game in the NFL the last three years playing center and right guard. Ryan Tucker is another veteran who can learn an offense quickly. He is looking for a bounce back season from last year (suspended for subtance abuse). Tucker still has good years ahead of him, offensive linemen with his experience are smart football players.

The Browns offensive line has serious depth and players that can play/start at multiple positions. A perfect mix of young and old (just like the receivers). As long as they gel early in the season, they should play smart and physical. They can beat teams with size on the line or finesse; it is basically pick your poison. The only thing stopping this unit can be the physical and confusing defenses of Pittsburgh and Baltimore. Teams like these can throw multiple looks at a QB and center throwing them completely off guard . With having a young starting QB and rookie starting center... mistakes can be made. I think this year penalty's will be at a very minimum on this line. They will be very disciplined. I still cannot think of a better offensive line in the NFL. You can argue Minnesota, New England, Baltimore, but they don't have Joe Thomas or the highest rated center from this years draft.

Projected Line
LT - Joe Thomas
LG - Eric Steinbach
C - Alex Mack
RG - Rex Hadnot
RT - "Porkchop" Womack
John St. Clair, Ryan Tucker and Hank Fraley are first to swap at ANY position...

Remember the name Kurt Quarterman; 6'5 348 lbs...a big boy that could make the 52 man roster

[tsteele316]

the only thing I will say is that barring a rash of injuries, there is no way that Womack starts at RT, absolutely none.

St. Clair or Tucker will start there.

[itownbuckeye]

Originally Posted by tsteele316

the only thing I will say is that barring a rash of injuries, there is no way that Womack starts at RT, absolutely none.

St. Clair or Tucker will start there.

or George Foster, of the 4 guys competing for right side spots I think Womack is the least likely to start at RT

[LitlBuck]

I think that guy must have forgotten about Foster because he doesn't even mention him. I think Foster can play both RT and LT maybe that was the writer's excuse.

[Buckrock]

Originally Posted by LitlBuck

I think that guy must have forgotten about Foster because he doesn't even mention him. I think Foster can play both RT and LT maybe that was the writer's excuse.

St Clair or Foster at RT. Tucker at RT guard if he can stay healthy. "Pork chop" Womack for depth. A completely revamped Right side. More smash mouth than last year.

Left Side, Thomas T and Steinbeck G. Mack at Center. Fraley back up. One younger guy should also emerge as a back up.

[LitlBuck]

This is more Cleveland Browns related and that is why I am posting this in this thread. My questions are at the bottom.

Donte Stallworth's roster status with Cleveland Browns on hold; NFL salary cap at crux of decision - cleveland.com

Donte Stallworth's roster status with Cleveland Browns on hold; NFL salary cap at crux of decision
by Tony Grossi/Plain Dealer Reporter
Thursday June 18, 2009, 9:55 PM

Due to NFL salary cap ramifications it may be in the best interests of the Browns to release Donte Stallworth in 2010. If he is released in 2009 he will count $7.6 million towards the salary cap.

Finances will play the biggest role in deciding Donte Stallworth's roster status with the Browns.

That is why multiple NFL sources said Thursday that the team would not act on the jailed wide receiver until it absolutely needs to.

Although Stallworth was suspended without pay indefinitely by NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell on Thursday, it doesn't mean Stallworth's huge contract figures come off the salary-cap books of the Browns.
The NFL salary-cap rules are complex and unforgiving. There are no exceptions for injuries or contract terminations. Only a player's base salary -- which is often purposely kept to the NFL minimum -- is wiped off the books during a suspension. But larger sums such as signing and roster bonuses are not removed.

While Stallworth is suspended "indefinitely," the Browns will get immediate salary-cap relief of $745,000, which is Stallworth's scheduled base salary for 2009.

But if they cut him now, he would cost the Browns about $7.6 million on their cap. The cap for every NFL team in 2009 is $128 million. So banishing Stallworth would eat up about 6 percent of the Browns' cap for a player not contributing.

If the Browns waited until 2010, there would be no salary cap ramifications because the cap is expected to be abolished -- unless the NFL and its players union reach an extension of the current collective bargaining agreement.

Continued

So, I guess what this article is saying is that the Browns are going to take a hit this season if they keep Stallworth on the roster or if they let him go. I guess if they keep him Leone take a salary hit a little over $700,000. The big question is whether next year there will not be a salary cap with a new CBA. I assume from this article that this is a chance the Browns are taking. Let me know if I have understood this correctly

[Buckrock]

Originally Posted by LitlBuck

This is more Cleveland Browns related and that is why I am posting this in this thread. My questions are at the bottom.

Donte Stallworth's roster status with Cleveland Browns on hold; NFL salary cap at crux of decision - cleveland.com


So, I guess what this article is saying is that the Browns are going to take a hit this season if they keep Stallworth on the roster or if they let him go. I guess if they keep him Leone take a salary hit a little over $700,000. The big question is whether next year there will not be a salary cap with a new CBA. I assume from this article that this is a chance the Browns are taking. Let me know if I have understood this correctly

They only get Cap relief on his salary $ 700K if suspended for the entire season ($45K per game). If they release him they take a $ 7M Cap hit in 2009. If he is suspended for a full year then the Commish does the Browns a favor. They will not cut him until 2010 to avoid the $ 7M hit. Look for the length of the suspension in August or September to determine the Browns move. This is how i read this situation.

[LitlBuck]

Originally Posted by Buckrock

They only get Cap relief on his salary $ 700K if suspended for the entire season ($45K per game). If they release him they take a $ 7M Cap hit in 2009. If he is suspended for a full year then the Commish does the Browns a favor. They will not cut him until 2010 to avoid the $ 7M hit. Look for the length of the suspension in August or September to determine the Browns move. This is how i read this situation.

if it would just be for this season, I don't really see how it would affect the salary-cap for the Browns. We are going to be signing anyone big-time for this season or have I completely misinterpreted the article

[Buckrock]

Originally Posted by LitlBuck

if it would just be for this season, I don't really see how it would affect the salary-cap for the Browns. We are going to be signing anyone big-time for this season or have I completely misinterpreted the article

I think the Browns are done but it could affect them and limit them if a big time player is released during training camp or at the end of camp. $7M is 5% of the salary cap number in 2009. It's basically dead money for the Browns.

Hey its the Browns. What else is new?

[itownbuckeye]

Originally Posted by Buckrock

I think the Browns are done but it could affect them and limit them if a big time player is released during training camp or at the end of camp. $7M is 5% of the salary cap number in 2009. It's basically dead money for the Browns.

Hey its the Browns. What else is new?

Not sure what you're saying here. Wouldn't they have had to take a cap hit on Stallworth even without the suspension? Seems like at least the suspension could possibly save them $700k.

[tsteele316]

Originally Posted by Buckrock

I think the Browns are done but it could affect them and limit them if a big time player is released during training camp or at the end of camp. $7M is 5% of the salary cap number in 2009. It's basically dead money for the Browns.

Hey its the Browns. What else is new?

per rotoworld stallworth's contract has a claus that allows cleveland to recover $3.875 million if he breaches his contract between 2/1/09 and 2/1/10.

I would say that vehicular manslaughter may qualify as a such. so, if true, they are really only on the hook for half of that $7 million, which, I'm not so sure isn't going to be prorated anyway due to the guaranteed money he's already collected. Grossi is known to be inaccurate about such things.

[LitlBuck]

Originally Posted by itownbuckeye

Not sure what you're saying here. Wouldn't they have had to take a cap hit on Stallworth even without the suspension? Seems like at least the suspension could possibly save them $700k.

I guess so because it was probably guaranteed money but it's not nice to have a vacant roster spot worth> $7 mil. I guess if the NFL had the NBA's CBA the Browns would be off the hook for his salary.

[Buckrock]

Originally Posted by itownbuckeye

Not sure what you're saying here. Wouldn't they have had to take a cap hit on Stallworth even without the suspension? Seems like at least the suspension could possibly save them $700k.

Only is they release him do they get a hit. The full $ 7M in 2009. This is why they may keep him rather than get hit with the big number. It would limit a late training camp signing or a mid year release signing. If he is suspended for a year and they keep him they only save $700k (his 2009 salary).