Cleveland Browns (2009 Season)

[tsteele316]

Originally Posted by billmac91

CB's taken in first since 2000:

2000 - Ahmed Plummer
2001 - Nate Clements, Will Allen,
2002 - Quentin Jammer, Phillip Buchanon, Lito Sheppard, Mike Rumpf
2003 - Terrance Newman, Marcus Trufant, Andre Woolfolk, Sammy Davis, Nnambi Asomugha
2004 - DeAngelo Hall, Dunta Robertson, Ahmad Carrol, Chris Gamble
2005 - Adam Jones, Antrel Rolle, Carlos Rogers, Fabian Washington, Marlin Jackson
2006 - Tye Hill, Antonio Cromartie, Jonathon Joseph, Kelly Jennings
2007 - Darrelle Revis, Leon Hall, Aaron Ross
2008 - Leodis McKelvin, Dominique Rogers-Cromartie, Aqib Talib, Mike Jenkins, Antoine Cason

I don't see too many flat out busts on that list. And the guys that did bust, didn't lack the ability, they lacked it between the ears. Malcolm isn't lacking anything between the ears, and is about as high character as you can get.

In the case of Antrel Rolle, he's become a solid safety....something Jenkins can do if necessary, although he's going to be a stud.

I'm all for Malcolm, a big name LB in Free Agency, and sliding McDonald down to Nickel.

I'd really rather not have to teach a rookie our LB scheme, and maybe have to sit him a year like Vernon, when you can get production tomorrow out of Malcolm.

I can also see the other side of this argument, I'd just rather take a CB and turn an awful unit into something decent in 1 pick. Malcolm can do that.

flat out busts? not so much. vastly inferior production for where they were picked, quite abundant, and very prevalent in those taken in the top 10. if cleveland was sitting at 10-12, i would have no objection to taking jenkins.

however, cleveland's LB unit is dreadful, they can't stop the run, can't rush the qb, and their secondary last year was one of the best in the NFL in interceptions. furthermore, cleveland is losing 2 starters from that pitiful LB unti to free agency. So, taking a cb at #5 is just not a good pick, regardless of where that cb went to college.

[billmac91]

Originally Posted by tsteele316

flat out busts? not so much. vastly inferior production for where they were picked, quite abundant, and very prevalent in those taken in the top 10. if cleveland was sitting at 10-12, i would have no objection to taking jenkins.

however, cleveland's LB unit is dreadful, they can't stop the run, can't rush the qb, and their secondary last year was one of the best in the NFL in interceptions. furthermore, cleveland is losing 2 starters from that pitiful LB unti to free agency. So, taking a cb at #5 is just not a good pick, regardless of where that cb went to college.

I'm still not sold. How much of our inability to stop the run came from a laid back attitude and zero contact practices??

I don't think Baltimore could stop the run if the had zero contact all training camp, and carried that over into the season. Several of our guys had 1 preseason game or less of contact prior to the Dallas game last year. I just fail to see how anyone expects the Browns to be a physical team, when they admittedly ran one of the softest camps and regular season practice routines.

That isn't to say Mangini coming in, and forcing the guys to hit, and running them to death to get them in shape will magically fix some of the problems. But I think it changes the mindset. John Harbaugh came in and worked the hell out of the Ratbirds and the 180 they did was pretty amazing.

My dream scenario is a new attitude, starting with the Head Coach, that changes the defense into a more physical unit. I think that alone helps to stop the run. I'd rather not draft another FSU DE and convert himn to LB, or bring in a rookie LB that needs time onthe bench to get the system down. Take Malcolm, improve the secondary, and find an OLB to replace Willie. I still have hope for D'Qwell Jackson and Cameron Wimbley. Not sure what happens with Andre Davis, although I'd bring him back for the right price.

[tsteele316]

Originally Posted by billmac91

I'm still not sold. How much of our inability to stop the run came from a laid back attitude and zero contact practices??

I don't think Baltimore could stop the run if the had zero contact all training camp, and carried that over into the season. Several of our guys had 1 preseason game or less of contact prior to the Dallas game last year. I just fail to see how anyone expects the Browns to be a physical team, when they admittedly ran one of the softest camps and regular season practice routines.

That isn't to say Mangini coming in, and forcing the guys to hit, and running them to death to get them in shape will magically fix some of the problems. But I think it changes the mindset. John Harbaugh came in and worked the hell out of the Ratbirds and the 180 they did was pretty amazing.

My dream scenario is a new attitude, starting with the Head Coach, that changes the defense into a more physical unit. I think that alone helps to stop the run. I'd rather not draft another FSU DE and convert himn to LB, or bring in a rookie LB that needs time onthe bench to get the system down. Take Malcolm, improve the secondary, and find an OLB to replace Willie. I still have hope for D'Qwell Jackson and Cameron Wimbley. Not sure what happens with Andre Davis, although I'd bring him back for the right price.

andra davis already said that he's not coming back to cleveland.

the proof is in the pudding. cleveland's secondary was one of the best in the nfl at forcing turnovers. cleveland was one of the worst teams in the nfl at rushing the passer and stopping the run.

[LitlBuck]

Do not forget that Sean Jones is also unrestricted. We only have really two LB's and one of them is Wembley and I don't think you want to count on him. Hall needs a couple years to even have enough weight to play OLB.

[3074326]

Originally Posted by tsteele316

andra davis already said that he's not coming back to cleveland.

the proof is in the pudding. cleveland's secondary was one of the best in the nfl at forcing turnovers. cleveland was one of the worst teams in the nfl at rushing the passer and stopping the run.

Forcing turnovers doesn't mean the secondary is good. The secondary was awful last year, despite the turnovers.

[Bucky Katt]

2000 - Ahmed Plummer
2001 - Nate Clements, Will Allen,
2002 - Quentin Jammer, Phillip Buchanon, Lito Sheppard, Mike Rumpf
2003 - Terrance Newman, Marcus Trufant, Andre Woolfolk, Sammy Davis, Nnambi Asomugha
2004 - DeAngelo Hall, Dunta Robertson, Ahmad Carrol, Chris Gamble
2005 - Adam Jones, Antrel Rolle, Carlos Rogers, Fabian Washington, Marlin Jackson
2006 - Tye Hill, Antonio Cromartie, Jonathon Joseph, Kelly Jennings
2007 - Darrelle Revis, Leon Hall, Aaron Ross
2008 - Leodis McKelvin, Dominique Rogers-Cromartie, Aqib Talib, Mike Jenkins, Antoine Cason

For comparison, linebackers taken in the first round:
2000 - Lavar Arrington (2), Brian Urlacher (9), Julian Peterson (16)
2001 - Dan Morgan (11)
2002 - Napoleon Harris (23), Robert Thomas (31)
2003 - Terrell Suggs (10), Nick Barnett (29)
2004 - Jonathan Vilma (12), DJ Williams (17), Jason Babin (27)
2005 - DeMarcus Ware (11), Shawne Merriman (12), Derrick Johnson (15)
2006 - AJ Hawk (5), Ernie Sims (8), Kamerion Wimbley (13), Manny Lawson (22)
2007 - Patrick Willis (11), Jon Beason (25), Anthony Spencer (26)
2008 - Keith Rivers (9), Jerod Mayo (10)

4 linebackers were 1st or 2nd team All-Pro for 2008 (Beason, Ware first team; Willis, Suggs second team). One cornerback (Asomugha, first team).

Similarly, 5 of those linebackers made the Pro Bowl (Beason, Willis, Peterson, Ware, Suggs). One cornerback (Asomugha).

Obviously, this is skewed because more linebackers are selected for each of these than cornerbacks, but still....

[3074326]

Asomugha didn't make 1st or 2nd team? That's [censored]ing stupid.

[Bucky Katt]

Originally Posted by 3074326

Asomugha didn't make 1st or 2nd team? That's [censored]ing stupid.

[censored]. He did, I'm just an idiot. I'll fix it.

[LitlBuck]

Browns UFA's if not signed before February 27 when free agency/trading begins.

DB Mike Adams
LB Andra Davis
LB Kris Griffin
DB Daven Holly
DB Sean Jones
LB Willie McGinest
LB Shantee Orr
TE Darnell Dinkins
OL Lennie Friedman
OL Seth McKinney
RB Jason Wright
OL Scott Young

I would say try to re-sign Adams, Holly (if his knee is okay), Dinkins, Friedman (good backup and special teams player), McKinney (another good backup) and Wright. I would also probably try to re-sign Jones depending upon his health (knee).

[NFBuck]

Jets may pursue Anderson
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05:08 AM ET 02.13 SHARE PRINT IT MY T&R
There is talk the Jets might pursue Derek Anderson when he's waived by the Browns. But they will need him to take their deal and cannot be overly aggressive in their pursuit. My hunch, though, is that the Jets will look to the draft to find their QB of the future. Rex Ryan witnessed firsthand in Baltimore what a rookie like Joe Flacco can do for a team, and he???ll look to find a similar talent in this draft. The Jets will be at every top quarterback workout this spring. For them, the road to improvement goes through the draft.

National Football Post

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_r...ursue-anderson

Huh? Have I missed something? Waiving him? You gotta think they should be able to at least get a draft pick of some sort for him.

[billmac91]

Originally Posted by NFBuck

Jets may pursue Anderson | Truth&Rumors | FanNation

Huh? Have I missed something? Waiving him? You gotta think they should be able to at least get a draft pick of some sort for him.

sounds like a blogger who is making an assumption without any facts......

[Piney]

Originally Posted by billmac91

sounds like a blogger who is making an assumption without any facts......

or typical New York media type that thinks typing something will make it come true.

[NFBuck]

More rumor milling involving everyone's favorite dog lover...obviously to be taken with a HUGE grain of salt, but color me shocked to even see the Brown's name in there.

The Falcons are actively seeking to trade Michael Vick. Falcons general manager Thomas Dimitroff said the team is preparing to trade the rights to the imprisoned and suspended quarterback, according to the team???s Web site. One question the Falcons will have to address is whether to trade Vick within the division. Carolina and Tampa Bay are among several teams that could be in the market for a quarterback. Other candidates include Detroit, Cleveland, Kansas City, the New York Jets, San Francisco and Chicago. Also, former Falcons head coach Jim Mora, who went to the NFC championship game with Vick, is head coach in Seattle. Greg Knapp, the former offensive coordinator for the Falcons when Vick was the starting quarterback, is on Mora???s staff. In November, The Associated Press contacted the other 31 teams about acquiring Vick. Most refused comment, citing league tampering rules. However, six teams said they would not shut the door on acquiring Vick.
Atlanta Journal Constitution

[NFBuck]

BQ update...

Browns quarterback Brady Quinn has been throwing a football for about two weeks and said Friday he's almost 100 percent recovered from his finger surgery. "It's amazing," he said. "This is what I was born to do and it feels great to be throwing again. I'm pain-free and everything was 100 percent successful." Quinn said he's been throwing 60 to 70 balls per day at his normal distance and velocity. "That's the status quo for quarterbacks at this time of year anyway," he said. He said he'll participate fully in next month's off-season program.
Cleveland Plain Dealer

[billmac91]

Originally Posted by NFBuck

More rumor milling involving everyone's favorite dog lover...obviously to be taken with a HUGE grain of salt, but color me shocked to even see the Brown's name in there.

I can't imagine what type of backlash the GM who trades for Vick is going to get....most teams have a few fans that own and love dogs.