Whines, Wives, and Wrong Threads

[mooktarr]

Don't leave coach willingtham out of the equation.

[cincibuck]

Originally Posted by BuckNutty

Coach Lynch at Ohio State = Championship

That's your comment, not mine.

My response was to this: Originally Posted by BUCKYLE
Right, because Texas Tech has all those NC's and B12 championships.

I haven't called for Tressel's head. I haven't even suggested a coaching change might be due for consideration. But to point to the situation at Texas Tech and suggest that Leach has done less than Tressel in the last few years ignores what each has done with the talent and advantages at hand.

Leach has taken over the Illinois, possibly the Indiana, of the Big 12 and put them on the national map. Tressel has taken a program that expects to compete at the NC level, has the support system to make such a goal possible, and moved the program, what, a notch higher than where it was?

Maybe it is easier to move a bottom feeder to conference contender than to keep a top program on top, but to me it looks more difficult.

[zincfinger]

Originally Posted by buckeye247

You wanna fix Terrell Pryor its easy. Excuse my language...
2. The qb coach has to put him against a wall and teach him literally that he cant throw off his back foot...

This drill - any drill really - doesn't really address the issue. It's not that difficult to step into your throws during a drill, and I'd be willing to bet that Pryor does this consistently, given that he generally does it during games on the occasions when he's not pressured. It's a far different matter to step into your throws when you've got a DE in your face who intends to level you. There's really no way to adequately simulate this in practice unless you're willing to give Thad Gibson and Cam Heyward open shots on Pryor, which I suspect Tressel, quite reasonably, is not willing to do. But basically, you're either going to have to let Pryor learn, during games, to handle that kind of pocket pressure, or you're going to have to subject him to game-like punishment all week long. Either that, or the pass protection is going to have to improve.

[Bucklion]

Spike Dykes was 35-23 his last 5 years at Texas Tech...not a world-beater, but hardly a "bottom-feeder". Had Leach done that at Baylor, that would be a miracle. At Texas Tech, it's an improvement, but not a miracle.

[MaxBuck]

Originally Posted by OHSportsFan9

Touche. Or whatever.

Did you mean "douche?"

[zincfinger]

Originally Posted by cincibuck

Leach has taken over the Illinois, possibly the Indiana, of the Big 12 and put them on the national map. Tressel has taken a program that expects to compete at the NC level, has the support system to make such a goal possible, and moved the program, what, a notch higher than where it was?

Maybe it is easier to move a bottom feeder to conference contender than to keep a top program on top, but to me it looks more difficult.

There's obviously no way to answer this with certainty, but if the question is whether it's easier to have Texas Tech playing at a consistently pretty good level, or to have OSU winning 1-2 national championships per decade, I'd say the former is far easier. Texas Tech to Indiana is not a good comparison. Even putting aside the fairly disparate all-time winning millages (TTU .561, IU .424), Tech is located in far more fertile recruiting territory than IU is. Even if Tech mostly signs the players that UT and OU took a pass on, that's still plenty of talent to yield a consistently pretty good team.

[Steve19]

Originally Posted by Bucklion

Spike Dykes was 35-23 his last 5 years at Texas Tech...not a world-beater, but hardly a "bottom-feeder". Had Leach done that at Baylor, that would be a miracle. At Texas Tech, it's an improvement, but not a miracle.

My thoughts exactly.

[cincibuck]

Originally Posted by zincfinger

There's obviously no way to answer this with certainty, but if the question is whether it's easier to have Texas Tech playing at a consistently pretty good level, or to have OSU winning 1-2 national championships per decade, I'd say the former is far easier. Texas Tech to Indiana is not a good comparison. Even putting aside the fairly disparate all-time winning millages (TTU .561, IU .424), Tech is located in far more fertile recruiting territory than IU is. Even if Tech mostly signs the players that UT and OU took a pass on, that's still plenty of talent to yield a consistently pretty good team.

And Illinois, the team I made the direct comparison to, won a Big 10 Championship just two seasons back... just sayin'

Texas Tech has to compete with Texas, Texas A&M and Oklahoma as well as the rest of the top 25 programs for Texas talent. Seems to me that OSU has had some Texas kids who made a difference, but has anyone from Ohio gone to play for Texas Tech?

[BB73]

Originally Posted by Bucklion

Spike Dykes

Hey, we're talking about coaches, not your HLA fantasies!

[zincfinger]

Originally Posted by cincibuck

And Illinois, the team I made the direct comparison to, won a Big 10 Championship just two seasons back... just sayin'

Texas Tech has to compete with Texas, Texas A&M and Oklahoma as well as the rest of the top 25 programs for Texas talent. Seems to me that OSU has had some Texas kids who made a difference, but has anyone from Ohio gone to play for Texas Tech?

Yes, Illinois is a better comparison than the bad Indiana comparison. But overall, your follow-up comments seem to undermine your previous comment. Illinois did not win a BigTen championship two seasons ago, but they did play in the Rose Bowl and had a pretty good team. Does this mean that Ron Zook did a great job, or is a great coach? No, "pretty good" should be the general expectation for Illinois, just as it should be for Texas Tech.

And you're absolutely right, the state of Texas sends far more quality recruits across the nation than does the state of Ohio (not to mention the state of Indiana, or even Illinois). This just underlines the fact that Texas Tech has the inherent ability, despite being #2 in their state and #3 or #4 in their region, of consistently being pretty good. Which is what they've been under Leach.

[cincibuck]

Prior to 1960 T Tech belonged to the Border Conference, the MAC of the Southwest. Since joining the Southwest Conference/Big 12 they've won two championships. So their record in comparison to Illinois or Indiana is difficult to make in terms of winning % -- playing in the MAC vs playing in the Big 10.

And frankly, I don't know exactly how I ended up having to defend Leach or T Tech, except to say that trying to compare almost anyone's circumstances to those of Tressell is difficult at best. Only a handful of schools can match the stadium, the training facilities, the medical staff, the alum support, the revenue, the history, the recruiting budget and the in-state HS football talent.

Do I want to see Tressell go T Tech on us and strip the talent from the defense to make the offense go? No.

Leach does that because he doesn't have, isn't going to get, the talent Tressell gets -- and therein lies the rub -- shouldn't Ohio State's offense have been better over most of the last 9 years given the level of talent (as demonstrated by the number of players drafted) on both sides of the ball?

[OHSportsFan9]

Originally Posted by MaxBuck

Did you mean "douche?"

Are we still talking about Wives?



I have no clue how to add the accent mark.

[BB73]

Originally Posted by OHSportsFan9

Are we still talking about Wives?



I have no clue how to add the accent mark.

For touche, you can type Tou-Shay.

For douche, you can type McShay.

[zincfinger]

Originally Posted by cincibuck

Prior to 1960 T Tech belonged to the Border Conference, the MAC of the Southwest. Since joining the Southwest Conference/Big 12 they've won two championships. So their record in comparison to Illinois or Indiana is difficult to make in terms of winning % -- playing in the MAC vs playing in the Big 10.

And frankly, I don't know exactly how I ended up having to defend Leach or T Tech, except to say that trying to compare almost anyone's circumstances to those of Tressell is difficult at best. Only a handful of schools can match the stadium, the training facilities, the medical staff, the alum support, the revenue, the history, the recruiting budget and the in-state HS football talent.

Do I want to see Tressell go T Tech on us and strip the talent from the defense to make the offense go? No.

Leach does that because he doesn't have, isn't going to get, the talent Tressell gets -- and therein lies the rub -- shouldn't Ohio State's offense have been better over most of the last 9 years given the level of talent (as demonstrated by the number of players drafted) on both sides of the ball?

OK, since 1960, Texas Tech has a .510 winning millage against the SWC/BigXII (the BigXII was formed in '94). In that same time period, Indiana has a .307 winning millage against the BigTen. Illinois has a .436 winning millage against the BigTen. Indiana has won one conference championship (as co-champions), Illinois has won four (one as co-champion). Any way you slice it, Texas Tech to Indiana is a really bad comparison, and Texas Tech to Illinois is a so-so comparison (the former blatantly in Tech's favor, the latter arguably so), and the results Leach has achieved at Tech are solid (.583 winning millage against the BigXII), but not an enormous step up from their historical standard.

And you don't "have to" defend Leach or Texas Tech, but I'm discussing the issue with you because you suggested that Tech is historically comparable to Illinois, if not Indiana, and that what Leach has done at Tech is more impressive than what Tressel has done at OSU. I disagree, and I think that history/situation are on my side.