A fair article from CFB: OSU has more Issues

[Piney]

Quick follow up to the 'free education' argument - which I knew was coming.

Put Ted Ginn and Jim Tressel both on the open market next year and see if the NFL offers Ginn anything more than the monetary equivalent of a 'free education'. See if the relative value of their compensation is anything close to the current margin of roughly 40 to 1 that currently exists in JTs favor.

Great points... but I will throw this counter argument into the works.

Ginn receives his monetary equivalent once he leaves college. Jim Tressel is getting paid to prepare Ginn for his career after college. I think of it this way. I am an accountant. The only way I can get a good accounting position is to PAY for college. Once I graduate college I get "drafted" by companies due to what I did in college via GPA, Interviews, and performance in many fields. Not many companies would hire someone unless they go to college. And the professors (ie coaches) get paid to prepare me for that career.

What is the main purpose for college? To prepare you for your career at the next level. Switch that to college football. Isn't that what Ohio State is doing... preparing the player for the next level to earn as much as possible. If Ginn would continue his path and play great, yes he makes Ohio State money. But he then "cashes in" after he graduates/leaves college like all college graduates.

Now about those that don't make it to the NFL? Well, they got an education and a college degree, which is at least worth something so they don't necessarily leave with "nothing". While the university made money off them, the university can make money off any student via research grants where the student really doesn't see any of the money, but the programs do. That is what happens here, the money made goes back to the athletic program to help support the program as a whole.

Of course there are differences and I am one who does not mind a relaxation of the rules, but if it is a rule, you must follow the rules and try to get the rules changed.

 

[OSUBasketballJunkie]

I agree - rules is rules and Smith and OSU have to be held accountable. But why go beyond that and suggest Smith should get more than the NCAA recommended penalty?

Point of emphasis - unlike prostitution and drugs accepting moeny from a booster is not illegal. Smith comitted no crime. He broke a rule that the NCAA set up for itself.

With all due respect, I agree that some people will not agree with booting him from the team, but keep in mind that NCAA rules are the minimum pentalties that can be levied and its up to the instituition to meet or exceed this standard. I believe with the atmosphere around the program and the perception of no control, something must be done to take a stand at OSU, not all of college football. The problems facing OSU are very alarming and a product of big time college football.

Troy Smith did not break a law, but did break the cardinal rule in collegiate athletics...he took money. Its my opinion that doesnt character count for something? Does his talent outweight his mistake? In my opinion no......no player should be able to break the one rule he absolutely knows and only miss two games, what message does that send the rest of the players who have or are taking money, I believe there are more.....it tells them to just dont get caught, and if you do...the pentaly wont be that harsh.

I think I want to see the program I love, have a higher standard against players who knowingly break NCAA rules.

 

[AJHawkfan]

So how many hours do they spend working on football? What's that come to per hour?

I really don't know they answer...but I bet it ain't "dearly"

After paying student loans for the better part of 10 years, I'd gladly accept a full atheltic scholarship and the God-given talent which allowed me to earn it.

At any rate, a free education, and free room & board for 4/5+ years is a pretty handsome payment. Ask the kid working nights at the 7-11 if he'd rather be there, or at a practice of some sorts....

 

[LightningRod]

What is the main purpose for college? To prepare you for your career at the next level. Switch that to college football. Isn't that what Ohio State is doing... preparing the player for the next level to earn as much as possible. If Ginn would continue his path and play great, yes he makes Ohio State money. But he then "cashes in" after he graduates/leaves college like all college graduates.

I believe baseball refers to this as the minor league system where the minor league players are paid. Many of the minor leaguers make a paltry amount of money, but some are compensated quite well. I believe this is the crux of the whole problem - if we acknowledge major Div 1 college football for what it truly is, i.e., the minor league system for the NFL, then let's not play pretend and impose restrictions on athletes receiving money.

 

[AKAK]

After paying student loans for the better part of 10 years, I'd gladly accept a full atheltic scholarship and the God-given talent which allowed me to earn it.

At any rate, a free education, and free room & board for 4/5+ years is a pretty handsome payment. Ask the kid working nights at the 7-11 if he'd rather be there, or at a practice of some sorts....

God Given talent and hard work...

Of course the Kid working at 7-11 would rather be a football star.... why wouldn't Tibor? But that's not the point.

The point is, that its neither free, nor is it extremely 'well paying"

 

[Onebuckfan]

I think some kind of stipend would be fair considering all the money being made in Major College Football. Then again how many of these kids would have a chance at a college educatiion without football.Playing Pro Football is not a given for a Div ! scolarship player. What is a given if you parlay your scolarship into a degree and let the fact you played major college football help open doors you can have a successful career without ever playing in the NFL. They will still have advantages over the every day graduate.

 

[Folanator]

You cannot go back and retroactively change the rules just because the program is getting a black eye. TS cannot get kicked off the team because the we decide that a statement needs to be made post infraction.

Now having said that, I would be all in favor of JT making a rule that if you take any cash or gifts from a booster you are gone with due process. To me this is the logical next step. Not kicking a kid off the team after the fact.

 

[Piney]

I believe baseball refers to this as the minor league system where the minor league players are paid. Many of the minor leaguers make a paltry amount of money, but some are compensated quite well. I believe this is the crux of the whole problem - if we acknowledge major Div 1 college football for what it truly is, i.e., the minor league system for the NFL, then let's not play pretend and impose restrictions on athletes receiving money.

Trust me... I am not against college athletes receiving money... just throwing out the argument. But I believe baseball is slightly different. Even after 4 years in college you mainly have to go through the minor leagues because the skill set is different. They draft so many high school players now college baseball is seen as a chance for those not good enough to go straight to the next level, where they can develop more skills to become marketable to even make it to the minor leagues and make money.

Once again, just throwing the arguments out there. The problem with paying college athletes is developing the scale of who and how to pay them. Where do you get the pool of money to pay the athletes? In reality even though there is alot of money made by college football there is an equal amount of money spent on college football by the universities. The biggest issue is Title IX and equality of athletic competition. Almost all universities use the money they generate from Football & basketball to pay for all the other sports.

 

[BuckNutty]

I agree - rules is rules and Smith and OSU have to be held accountable. But why go beyond that and suggest Smith should get more than the NCAA recommended penalty?

I think Folanator addressed your question quite well. While I don't think Troy should necessarily have to be the fall guy to appease the talking heads that think the football program is out of contol I do believe a message needs to be sent to the players that this kind of behavior will not be tolerated at Ohio State. I don't know that a two game suspension sends a strong enough message.

Point of emphasis - unlike prostitution and drugs accepting moeny from a booster is not illegal. Smith comitted no crime. He broke a rule that the NCAA set up for itself

I'm reasonably sure you don't think I'm equating taking money from a booster to prostitution or drug use/sales. The point I was trying to make was no matter how you or I feel about a law or NCAA rule, when they are in place and you break one of those rules/laws it has consequences. Troy Smith knew taking money from a booster was a big time no-no and he still did it. Bringing up whether or not the NCAA should be paying student athletes or whether or not the way things are currently set up with university fat cats getting richer and richer almost makes it out like people are trying to justify what Troy did. As far as I'm concerned there is no justification.

 

[TallIndian]

I agree that Smith has done the crime, and there is a punishment from the NCAA. And the punishmnet fits the crime.

However .... there are extenuating circumstances .....

1. We are under the microscope .... and we were told the team has been
told to keep there noses clean .... we all know it ... don't tell me the players don't.

2. Troy had the dorm incident last year.....

3. Troy had the call out of Tress about playing ....
Not a team player kind of thing.... which was also made into national news.

Obviously he will not be kicked off the team ..... the die is cast on this one ....

but if he farts in the huddle one more time ...... he is gone.

This should also apply to the rest of the team as well.

While the players do not OWE OSU anything ....

It is an honor to be given a scholorship and to play for the Scarlett & Gray.

If you don't think so... then hit them Hush Puppies on down the road ...
and don't look back.

The actions of the Ohio State Football players reflects on you and me and all tOSU graduates and fans .... and that needs to be remembered.

THERE NEEDS TO BE RULES, AND LIMITS.

Most of us here would give an arm and a leg to play for tOSU ....

and to be given a full ride ... and play for tOSU ... with the stipulation that
all you have to do is follow the rules...... come on guys .... the players know the rules.

Tress and Geiger need to crack down. If not starting with Smith, then starting....NOW.

The trouble with that is that the public will say Smith got preferential treatment because he was a STAR of the scUM game.

That perception is OK, as long as they announce that there is now zero tolorance.... and stick to it.

IMHO

 

[hawaiianbuckeye]

Since when was taking $$$ a criminal offense?

The punishment should be commensurate with the "crime". TS didn't commit a criminal act here, so he shouldn't be kicked off the team. The other guys that were kicked off Gillford, Irsiray (sp) that was a crime. Their punishment fit the crime.

HAYN

 

[BB73]

but if he farts in the huddle one more time ...... he is gone.

Gonna have to be careful with the pre-game meal from now on.

Seriously, I agree that future transgressions need harsher penalties. Which are know by the team in advance.

I posted that on Page 1, and was surprised that nobody directly responded. Here's what I proposed:

I think that AG and JT need to come out and lay down the line for all infractions COMMITTED IN THE FUTURE. If more dirt is found on things that happened in the past, treat them the same as the way Troy Smith was treated.

But put a policy in writing, saying that any NCAA infractions, no matter how minor, cost 1 full year of playing time, and that anyone's second infraction in the future, whether the first one already occurred before this policy or not, means you're permanently gone from the team. Our Athletic Department's reaction to incidents should be more of a penalty than NCAA guidelines call for.

The bad booster, Baker, needs to be completly ostracized; while the booster that turned him in (Webster, I think) should be rewarded somehow.

Anyone convicted of a felony should be premanently gone from the team. This may already be a policy, but it needs to be in writing and publicized.

They need to do something very proactively, both to prevent problems and for the sake of appearances. Similar to the new recruiting policies that Colorado instituted after their big scandal earlier this year. It's all about the appearance of 'Institutional Control', and the perception that we're actively trying to avoid problems, rather than appearing to be saying 'What else can we do?'<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
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[UGABuck]

Ok, for all of you/us that have been in the football dorms at a D1 school, do you think improper benefits don't happen at every school? Do you think Trev and Mark did not observe them at Nebraska and Pitt? Do you think the NCAA does not think it happens?

Now, do you think we are going to see a pay schedule for NCAA athletes (barring that Nebraksa bullshit)? No, we are not because the very integrity of the sport and and whatever equity that still remains in the sport will be destroyed.

So, what do we do....we continue to police and educate. And when something really goes wrong the school punishes itself. The only reason the NCAA wants to get involved is because it does so to maintain the balance and equity between schools....because there is a shitpot full of money in CFB.

Now, do you really think kicking TS off the team is a reasonable punishment? No....it is not. And frankly, the only message it sends is that tOSU is not educated about the NCAA guidelines. The OSU, the NCAA and every D1 college athlete at football factories know that CFB is a stepping stone. TS just missed the first step in what could be a Sunday career. Believe me, the punishment he is dealing with is severe enough without this type of over reaction. It was just dumb enough that he is now "at the bottom of the ladder" as JT put it. If he does it again , then it is personal, but right now it is just a dumbass mistake. What bothers me is that Troy must not think much of his capabilities, because, is $500 now worth more than $5M later?