A Split National Championship in 2008?

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Utah killed SC's argument last night when added to the fact they defeated the only team who beat SC, as well. I suspect Brent and Herbie shed a few tears last night after their menage e trois with Petey the day before...

Argument? Who said USC needs to argue. They're SC, for shit's sake. That alone is good for 25 1st place ballots.

 

[WaitingforKickoff]

how is it contradictory?

if USC and Texas win all of their games, they dont put themselves in the situation where the voters decide their fate

but they did put themselves in that situation.....

Because on one hand you are saying voters should bear some blame but on the other hand you are saying that the teams should bear all of the blame. It's like saying "I should take all responsibility for my academic performance, but oh by the way the teachers can screw up my grades too by not being fair." You can't it both ways.

 

[korchiki]

The pollsters and computers didn't make Florida and Oklahoma lose either, yet both of them are in the BCS title game over teams that lost (Texas, Southern Cal, Penn State) and teams that didn't lose (Utah, Boise State). Is that not true?

Did Oklahoma and Florida control their own destinies any more than Southern Cal, Texas, and Penn State? And what about Utah and Boise State, who didn't lose at all during the regular season?

And may I infer from your comments that you are the rare Buckeye fan who doesn't think that Ohio State was screwed by the pollsters/BCS in 1996 and 1998?

The only way to get a true, undisputed national champion in college football is for the NCAA to institute a play-off system, preferably with 16 teams. Otherwise, there will almost always be questions and controversy regarding the MNC. This season, there are at least five teams that could claim to be the best in the land (Florida, Oklahoma, Texas, Southern Cal, Utah), but the BCS system will give only two of those teams (Florida and Oklahoma) the chance for the title.

The only problem that I see with a playoff is injuries. If tOSU were to lose Beanie in the first game of a 16 team playoff we would be a completely different team. The same goes for every other team in the land who and their MVP. Obviously injuries are a part of the game but with this scenario it could play more of a factor.

With that said I still think we need something else and the + 1 system could be a good start.

 

[Nicknam4]

I see what he means, but it is contradictory. Can't avoid that.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Too many folks (myself included) attempt to use the transitive property when ranking teams, when we all know it doesn't work. Before the Rose Bowl, if you had used "Penn State destroyed Oregon State, and Oregon State beat USC, so Penn State will handle USC easily" as your reasoning for picking a Penn State upset, folks would've laughed you off the board. Yet, people will continue to use the transitive property when racking and stacking teams. Now, the "USC dominated Ohio State, and Penn State was lucky to edge Ohio State, so USC should win easily against Penn State" logic would've worked, but transitive property analysis is simply unsound.

We need a playoff and doesn't be surprised to see it in a full form within the next decade (by 2020).

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

The only problem that I see with a playoff is injuries. If tOSU were to lose Beanie in the first game of a 16 team playoff we would be a completely different team.

Which is the same as losing him in the bowl game. If Beanie gets hurt in the first quarter against Texas, we'll be a completely different team the rest of the game, so what's the difference?

 

[Jake]

Argument? Who said USC needs to argue. They're SC, for shit's sake. That alone is good for 25 1st place ballots.

Good point.

 

[OCBucksFan]

If the National Title gets slit again then someone will have to tell me how we are better than we were prior to the BCS. I thought that system was put in place, agreed upon by the conferences, and designed to make sure that we would have one true National Champion each year. Now it has somehow become the goal of teams who fail in the regular season to try and get a split NC, and that just feels so 1997.

 

[Gatorubet]

Utah looked great, but I see them like I did FSU in the 90s. I mean, at one point they had lost only two ACC games in like eight years. They had to beat Miami and beat Florida, and sail through the cupcakes.

That did not mean that FSU was not a good team, not at all, but it did mean that they had to get up for a few games a year, and that was all. They got to rest the starters, which resulted in less inijuries and more experience to back ups, and they never had to worry about "let down" games so much, as the in-conference competition was not the same as in other conferences.

So with that advantage ( and again, a really good team) they sailed through the ACC but lost to Miami ini '92, Miami in 94, went to UF in Jan 97, UF in Dec 97, to Tennessee in '98, Miami and Oklahoma in 2000, Miami and Florida in 2001, Miami in 2003, Miami and Florida in 2004, and then BC and Miami joined the ACC, and FSU was sliding.

Point being, a big part of the "dynasty" was the ability to walk through a lesser conference.

With the MWC record over the Pac-10, that might not be an issue with Utah, but it is one of the things to look at when an undefeated team shows up for a good game against the BCS teams. Is it an equal or is it a team that is healthy that has to get up for just a few big games?

 

[LordJeffBuck]

im arguing against a split title

in the system present, its just tough luck for USC and Texas, maybe next year

The "system" allows for a split title ... that is, the AP voters can completely ignore the BCS title game and crown their own national champion.

 

[Gatorubet]

The "system" allows for a split title ... that is, the AP voters can completely ignore the BCS title game and crown their own national champion.

Well, only in the sense that you allow yourself to view the AP as the Title crowning entity. My view is once you accept to be a part of the BCS system, you are agreeing to the rules. That is why the "split" with USC was so silly when LSU won in 03. Hell, that is why I do not use the NYT poll to give the 84 Gators the MNC....everyone used the AP.

 

[LordJeffBuck]

Well, only in the sense that you allow yourself to view the AP as the Title crowning entity. My view is once you accept to be a part of the BCS system, you are agreeing to the rules. That is why the "split" with USC was so silly when LSU won in 03.

SEC honk....

Hell, that is why I do not use the NYT poll to give the 84 Gators the MNC....everyone used the AP.

You don't trust the NYT when it concerns football? Well, at least you have some sense....

 

[Jake]

Too many folks (myself included) attempt to use the transitive property when ranking teams, when we all know it doesn't work. Before the Rose Bowl, if you had used "Penn State destroyed Oregon State, and Oregon State beat USC, so Penn State will handle USC easily" as your reasoning for picking a Penn State upset, folks would've laughed you off the board. Yet, people will continue to use the transitive property when racking and stacking teams. Now, the "USC dominated Ohio State, and Penn State was lucky to edge Ohio State, so USC should win easily against Penn State" logic would've worked, but transitive property analysis is simply unsound.

Oregon State beat USC
Stanford beat Oregon State
Notre Dame beat Stanford
Syracuse beat Notre Dame
Akron beat Syracuse
Temple beat Akron
Kent State beat Temple
Louisiana-Lafayette beat Kent State
Florida Atlantic beat Louisiana-Lafayette
Middle Tennessee State beat Florida Atlantic
Florida International beat Middle Tennessee State
Louisiana-Monroe beat Florida International
Tulane beat Louisiana-Monroe
Army beat Tulane
New Hampshire beat Army

Therefore, New Hampshire would kick the shit out of USC.

 

[korchiki]

Which is the same as losing him in the bowl game. If Beanie gets hurt in the first quarter against Texas, we'll be a completely different team the rest of the game, so what's the difference?

It is 4 times more likely that it could happen with playing that many games as opposed to the current system. Again just playing devils advocate here...

 

[MaxBuck]

If the National Title gets slit again then someone will have to tell me how we are better than we were prior to the BCS.

A lot more money is being made for participating universities, most of which apparently flows to the head coaches based on their exploding salaries. And money's what this system is all about, not about determining the "best team in the nation."

There are too many things that can happen in football wherein the "best" team (as can be determined only by Almighty God) might end up the season with as many as 4 losses.

Anyone who thinks a playoff system would infallibly crown the objectively best team is fooling themselves. It would crown the single team that won the playoff; that would be it. Reasonable people can disagree about whether such a system would be preferable to what we have now.