Academics, Graduation Rates, etc

[OSU_Buckguy]

As for the 290 pound kid who runs the 40 in 4.4 and is only interested in going to college to get to the NFL - screw him. Weed 'em out. Don't let 'em in the door.

initially, the sentiment sounds understandable; however, not letting a prospect like this in the door would never give many, though certainly not all, the opportunity to realize and appreciate what a college degree and experience offer. many simply haven't been raised in a system that fosters a desire to learn. it may not be until college that such opportunities can be explored.

 

[TheStoicPaisano]

In anticipation of playing tOSU, we did a little digging ourselves. We found your scheme. Of course, your confession does help explain Ted Ginn's calculus 305 grade:

Slow Mo just tats that shit on his arm so he doesn't forget.

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

And this is the crux of the issue. Do we remove the facade and say that for many kids CFB is just a training program for the NFL, thus making OSU at best a technical school rather than a University for these athletes?

You don't get a degree in veterinary medicine at OSU by spending a year or two or six treating animals until you can do it on your own, or until some veterinary practice offers you a huge bonus to come work for them. You take a core curriculum. You take math and science and English and humanities and a variety of courses that give you at the end of the day what Universities are intended to provide - a balanced education. You are more than a veterinarian - you are an educated person.

The "football is their chosen profession" argument misses completely the fact that there is no degree in football at OSU or any other University. And if there were you would need to take science, math, English, etc. to get that degree.

There is a distinction between the football player who leaves OSU with a degree and one who does not and it is an important one. And I applaud the NCAA for focusing on that distinction.

As for the 290 pound kid who runs the 40 in 4.4 and is only interested in going to college to get to the NFL - screw him. Weed 'em out. Don't let 'em in the door.

At some level, I agree with most of what you're saying. But I reach a different conclusion, and it's all about having a different standard of value.

You obviously value education for education's sake very highly. I respect that. But I have met incredibly broad-minded, well-rounded, thoughtful people that have never set foot on a college campus. I hold education in the highest regard, but I believe that formal education is over-rated. That, I am sure, is a highly controversial opinion. But that is all it is, an opinion.

Does this mean that I don't respect the hell out of a PhD? Of course not. But I have worked with engineers with no degree that were better than some I've known that had PhD's from a Big Ten school. (For the uninitiated, the Big 10 is hands down the best conference for engineering schools, even including the Ivy League)

More to the point, people go to college for different reasons. Some go for an education. That's great. I mean that.

But some people go to college to learn a trade and for no other reason. Does this turn the school into a Trade School? Maybe. But just because pond scum use Stanford Law as a Trade School doesn't mean that we shouldn't respect Stanford Law as an academic institution.

I went to Ohio State to learn to be an engineer. End of story. Since leaving I have educated myself in philosophy, history and economics. I have done so because I value education. But to me, formal education was nothing more than the means to an end.

But what of the person who treated college like a Trade School and then eschews education for the rest of his life? What of it? Do I find uneducated people interesting? No. Do I prefer to associate with educated (formally or not) persons? Of course. But do I consider myself superior in any meaningful way to people who choose a simpler life? Not a bit. They've got their way, I have mine.

This brings us back to the high school football player. Some of them will value formal education as much as you do. That's great, more power to them. Some will see college as a means to an end, like I did. Should I have been shown the door because I treated Ohio State like a Trade School? I don't think so. And I don't think anyone else should either.

I understand that football is not a major. But the only reason this is true is because those in charge of Universities value formal education very highly, as well they should. They don't want to concede any ground to people who prefer the Trade School approach and want to either educate themselves (or not) as they see fit. And I don't think they should concede anything. There is a place in this world for their standard of value. I think there's a place for mine too.

 

[Oh8ch]

What a fun topic. Lots of great points. Here is my take on a few.

I don't think it takes a degree to make an good person or even an educated person. I have as much respect for my Dad's intelligence and knowledge as any one I have ever known. Yet he got his HS diploma when he was 86.

But for the overwhelming number of folks who get degrees it makes them better and more educated people. I have a degree in accounting. I have never been an accountant but I am better for those four years. And my first 'real job' required I have a degree.

When I was teaching computer science for DoD as part of a training facility that existed because colleges at that time did not have computer science curriculum's (I go all the way back to the six bit byte) we required a college degree as a condition of employment. We had everything from history majors to teachers to philosophers (they made the best programmers). That worked well. Like it or not the college degree is an efficient sorting mechanism for intelligence, motivation, work ethic, and even character. Not perfect by any means - but more efficient than anything else I can come up with.

As a football fan I like it the way it is. I also liked it when College BBall players had to stay four years.

But to suggest that colleges have some responsibility to serve as an entry point for the NFL undermines that higher function. I agree that an emphasis on academics closes a door for a lot of prospective NFL players. But CFB was never designed to provide such a door, it just evolved that way. CFB was being played decades before the NFL even existed.

Emphasis on academics does not reduce the scholarship limit from 85. It says that those 85 will be people who care more about academics than a comparable 85 in 1999. For every stud that finds a door closed a door opens for a more appropriate candidate.

I would like to argue that another effect of the new rules would be that kids would pay more attention to academics in HS and realize that it if they want the millions at the end of the rainbow they need to demonstrate an academic interest early on. Unfortunately, for the kids we are talking about they would never get this message early enough. Kids just don't think that way. It is a shame. But that doesn't shift the responsibility to OSU.

If the net result of all of this is that the quality of play in both college and the NFL is marginally diminished but more kids get degrees I can live with it.

 

[t_BuckeyeScott]

philosophers (they made the best programmers

That's because they are the same exercise(logic) across different mediums.

 

[osugrad21]

CPD

Ohio State ranks poorly on athlete graduation rates



Thursday, October 04, 2007 Doug Lesmerises

Plain Dealer Reporter
Columbus- Ohio State's football and men's basketball teams rank near the bottom of the Big Ten in the latest graduation rates released by the NCAA on Wednesday. Both fell below the 60 percent graduation rate NCAA President Myles Brand said every school should hope to achieve in every sport.
"If you're below 60, we have some work to do to correct that," Brand said during a conference call with reporters.
With a 53 percent graduation rate, the OSU football team ranked ninth in the Big Ten ahead of only Minnesota and Michigan State, well below traditional football powers Penn State (76 percent) and Michigan (73).




Cont...

And while OSU coaches Jim Tressel, in his seventh year at Ohio State, and Thad Matta, entering his fourth season, didn't recruit any of the players counted by this report, they did oversee the academic progression of some of them. Since 2001, Ohio State football has never reached the 60 percent mark in GSR, staying between a low of 38 percent in 2002 and a high of 55 percent last year. The men's basketball team went up slightly from last year's 38 percent, but has had several 50 percent years in the recent past.

 

[Best Buckeye]

Ohio State has the largest enrollment for the 2nd year.

Toledo Blade;
COLUMBUS, Ohio ? Ohio State University is the nation?s largest public university for the second year in a row, new enrollment figures show. The school?s main campus in Columbus has 52,568 undergraduate, graduate and professional students this fall, 750 more than last year. University of Florida at Gainesville is second with 51,876 students, and Arizona State University at Tempe is the third with 51,481.

 

[OregonBuckeye]

We're #1! We're #1! We're #1! Everybody now!

 

[Todd1971]

Graduation %

Does anyone know where I can find these stats for the football team?

 

[ScriptOhio]

Stanford halts class list for athletes

Stanford has discontinued the practice of distributing a list of "courses of interest" only to student-athletes, according to a report by the "California Watch" investigative reporting project.
The course list, which was not advertised to the general student population, was widely regarded by Stanford student-athletes as an offering of easier classes. It was discontinued last week after reporters inquired about it, according to the report.
Soccer player Kira Maker, who made use of the list, said classes on the list were "always chock-full of athletes and very easy A's," according to the report.
"I never used it before this year," crew team member Ryan Sudeck said, according to the report. "I was trying to get my requirements done. But this quarter it was like, 'Oh, I need an easy class to boost my GPA.' "
Stanford officials said the list, distributed by its Athletic Academic Resource Center, was meant to help student-athletes find classes that would fit into their schedules, according to the report. They disputed assertions that the list was made up of easier courses at Stanford, widely regarded as one of the most academically stringent universities with big-time Division I sports.

Entire article: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=6197050

 

[OHSportsFan]

Academic All-BIG honors announced today

http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/genrel/120711aaa.html

Sixty-Six Buckeyes Named Academic All-Big Ten
Women's soccer team leads with 17 honorees, followed by field hockey with 11

To be eligible for Academic All-Big Ten selection, student-athletes must be letterwinners who are in at least their second academic year at their institution and carry a cumulative grade-point average (GPA) of 3.0 or higher.

Con't

Buckeye Football had 10 members make the list.

Congratulations to the follow Buckeyes!

Ben Buchanan
Dominic Clarke
Zach Domicone
Nate Ebner
Derek Erwin
Adam Homan
Chris Maxwell
Tyler Moeller
Chris Roark
Andrew Sweat

Hope Meyer can get the Academics straightened out next year.

@marcushartman
Marcus Hartman
Ohio State football had 9 Academic All-Big 10 picks in 2001, averaged 23.7 from 2002-10

 

[Diego-Bucks]

Academic All-BIG honors announced today

http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/genrel/120711aaa.html


Buckeye Football had 10 members make the list.

Congratulations to the follow Buckeyes!

Ben Buchanan
Dominic Clarke
Zach Domicone
Nate Ebner
Derek Erwin
Adam Homan
Chris Maxwell
Tyler Moeller
Chris Roark
Andrew Sweat

Hope Meyer can get the Academics straightened out next year.

Congrats to those Buckeyes. Seems like a low number. :(

 

[ScriptOhio]

GETTING GRADUATED. Ohio State's athletic department has got more teams and more student-athetes than anyone else in the country, but it's not been at the detriment of academics.

In graduation data released by the NCAA Tuesday, Ohio State student-athletes have a four-class average (2010-13) of 88 percent in the Graduation Success Rate (GSR) and, in the 2013-14 cohort, held steady with a Federal Graduation Rate (FGR) of 74 percent, five points above the national average.

...

The NCAA established the GSR in 2002 as a means of understanding student-athletes’ academic completion rates more concretely. It does so by accounting for two groups that play an increasingly prominent role in collegiate athletics: mid-year, first-time enrollees and transfers.

“Since the GSR was established, OSU’s GSR has improved markedly, reaching a kind of plateau of 86 percent from 2017-19,” Davidson said. “Seen in that context, this year’s improvement by two points to 88 percent is truly significant. Our student-athletes are performing extremely well academically, and the entire department is focused on continuing to improve. Everyone from coaches to athletics leadership to academic staff take this as a point of pride.

“Still, the credit goes to the inspirational young men and women who dedicate themselves to being the best they can be as students and athletes.”

There's still a stigma around athletes that they don't put in the same work academically as everybody else, but I can tell you with authority that at least 98 percent of them were better students than I – the fellow who skipped an entire semester of macroeconomics and calculus to watch Bones and Castles all day.