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Age old football truism

Discussion in 'Buckeye Football' started by Def, Oct 13, 2004.

  1. Def

    Def Newbie

    As the game goes on a successfull running team ends up wearing out the opposing defense. Even great defenses are susceptible to this rule. Why?

    Some thoughts:
    -The offense is on the field the same amount of time as the defense.
    -D-Linemen are usually in better shape than O-lineman.
    -All the defensive players seem to run an equal amount as their opposing counter part on the offense.
    -The Defense is usually the one inflicting more punishment to the ball carriers or at least it is equal across all players.
    -Defenses, especially D-line rotate players more frequently.

    It seems to me like the opposite should happen. I've never gotten a satisfactory answer as to why this is the case. Perhaps someone could explain?
     
  2. MililaniBuckeye

    MililaniBuckeye The satanic soulless freight train that is Ohio St Staff Member Tech Admin

    The offense nearly always has the advantage because they know where they're going and the defense has to react and chase. Note how much further a defensive lineman has to go to get to the QB than the guarding offensive lineman has to move to block him, plus the DL is going balls to the wall while the OL usually just maintains his position. And a linebacker may come all the from the other side of the field to tackle a running back, who started from the middle of the field...plus the linebacker probably has had to either fight off a block or two, or at least had to avoid them. Similar thing with corners and safeties, where they could be covering their receiver and then all of a sudden have to break off and chase down another receiver who just made a catch or a running back who just broke into the secondary. The defense has to travel further and faster, almost without exception.
     
  3. ScarletArrow

    ScarletArrow I'm wearing Gold Pants

    I disagree with your axioms.

    - Are you saying TOP is 50/50 and a non-factor?
    - What support do you give to DL being better shape than OL?
    - Actually, I would estimate the defense runs 2x as much as the offense in pursuit.
    - Offensive players are able to inflict the same kind of contact.
    - Rotation is a sign of fatigue, not strength.
     
  4. osugrad21

    osugrad21 Capo Regime Staff Member

    Bingo
     
  5. KillerNut

    KillerNut Banned

    I would say this, if you had to contine to lift 250 lbs over and over would you get tired, even if you got some breaks it would wear you down right?

    That is why, constant banging and brusing. Fullbacks banging theire way in there, double teams.

    You don't know where these hits are going to come from, then you add the pursuit that Grad and arrow talkabout. It is not easy on a D-linemen.

    There is also a mental drain that a slow sustained drive wears on you, especially third down conversions like we have had trouble with.

    When you give all you have effort fighting and clawing for 3 plays and then they get 3 more downs it drains you, there is no other way to say it.

    Getting beat man to man drains on you.

    Passes don't drain a defensive front as much because you do not take the pounding that run blocking gives you, as a DL rushing the passer is more fun than work, and the offensive line has to move there feet. With DLinemen being faster most of the time it gives them and advantage.

    I know I skiped around a lot but hopefully this adds something.
     
  6. Def

    Def Newbie

    -Not TOP, just that the defensive team is on the field the same amount of time as the other teams offense.
    -I think generally it is true that the D line has better athletes in better shape. There doesn't seem to be a real way to prove it though.
    -If they inflict the same kind of contact than it is still should be equal in terms of tiring out a player.
    -I don't disagree that rotation a sign of fatigue, but it goes to the original question why are they more fatigued if they are playing less downs.

    Your estimate is the defense runs 2x as much is probably the answer. It's just not obvious to me that this happens. For example lineman pull and block down when the defense is in pursuit. Recievers seem to run just as much as defensive backs. Linebackers run more than o-line but less than recievers so that may even out across the board.
     
  7. IronBuckI

    IronBuckI Calmer than you are.

    I agree with what most of these guys ar saying, and would like to add to the fact that, a defense has 3 or 4 d-lineman, in most sets. An O-line has 5 linemen plus a FB and 1 0r 2 TE's. Grant it, someone has to block the LB's, but not all of them need to be blocked on every play. I believe that their is a blog or two explaining blocking schemes. Also, being on the attack, i.el. pursuit of the ball carrier, takes more energy than defending.
     
  8. AKAK

    AKAK If you hear the siren its already too late Staff Member

    Ever play Tag when you were a kid? Smear the Queer?

    Find someone who can run about the same speed as you and tell them to run around while you try to catch them... then reverse it... and see which tires you out faster...
     
  9. exhawg

    exhawg Mirror Guy Staff Member

    I can't really add anything here, but I will anyway. O-linemen don't get worn down during the game like DL do. RB and WR are probably the only offensive positions that will get worn out. You see RB's sub a lot during the games after a few carries.
     
  10. kippy1040

    kippy1040 Junior

    Defenses are so complex and they are geared to give the QB a false sense of direction and baiting him into a trap.

    And now we see defensive safetys rushing in and then backing out to generate some kind of confusing in the offensive lines stratagey. This is where the execution of plays by the O/L is so critical and the backs have to be ready to re-act, if the hole shuts down and make a decision to break free. Right now defenses are much farther ahead in the scheme of things.

    Offensive lines must have exceptional people in thier line-up to maintain the upperhand. I really feel that this is what Ohio State is dealing with right now in thier efforts to make the adjustments necessary to improve the offense.

    I have seen Purdue play enough to convince me that Kyle Orton is making all the right decisions and Wisconsin is coming on strong in the same way but thier running attack is superb right now. We (Ohio State) have some young people in the right places but need to have them learn to play in that right position without the errors that they are making.

    "Sometimes you see things that you THINK you see - but then when you look at it again, You realize - you should have THOUGHT better"...... this was a quote from Mike Gottfried, a long long time ago and I never have forgotten it. I liked his philosophy then and I still think it applys today in football tactics. Jim Tressel knows of this type of thinking and he tries to apply it in his players. I hope what I just said here, speaks of TRUEISM in the most simple form.
     
  11. ScarletArrow

    ScarletArrow I'm wearing Gold Pants

    Smear the Queer has been banned due to political correctness. I believe it is now called 'Assist the person with ball to ground'.
     
  12. FCollinsBuckeye

    FCollinsBuckeye Senior Former Game Champion

    We called it 'Deck the Czech'.


    Fucking Czechs.
     
  13. RugbyBuck

    RugbyBuck Our church has no bells.

    It has been more years than I am willing to admit since I played football, although it seems like last week, but as I recall and still routinely experience playing God's Sport, it takes more energy to play solid defense and tackle well. I could pretty much coast in a rugby match on offense, but when you turn up the heat and start really hitting people, even though you're doing more damage to them, it wears you out more quickly. Mixture of aerobic and anaerobic activity?
     
  14. Bestbuck36

    Bestbuck36 It's a brand new Day!!

    For the most part the Offensive player is initiating all contact. The major Defensive players initiating the contact are on the ball carrier and to some extent D-lineman. For a defensive player the goal is to avoid contact, thus being blocked, and get to the ball. When a 300 plus pound guy is hitting you over and over again while your running or a 250 plus pound guy is getting a run at you and hitting you- all before you get to the ball carrier it can be exhausting. The biggest reason for time of possession being a factor is that this happens numerous times in a row. Teams that use the hurry-up or no-huddle can tax a defense to the extreme. On the flip side a passing team can exhaust its WR's more than a running team due to the routes they run and being hit on every/every other play by the DB's.
     
  15. osugrad21

    osugrad21 Capo Regime Staff Member

    Bestbuck if your linebackers are avoiding contact when plugging the hole...you are in big trouble. Scrape and plug....I'd call that initiating contact. Just ask Brandon Schnittker
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2004

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