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Anti-Semitic attack on woman on Paris train

Discussion in 'Open Discussion (Work-safe)' started by BuckeyeInTheBoro, Jul 12, 2004.

  1. BuckeyeInTheBoro

    BuckeyeInTheBoro This space left intentionally blank

    This article just got me fired up:

    French politicians have condemned an apparently anti-Semitic attack on a woman in which a knife-wielding gang on a suburban train cut her hair, ripped her clothes and drew swastikas on her body.

    It goes on to say:
    The part that kills me was here's this woman with her baby being attacked IN FRONT OF OTHER PASSENGERS??? I'd love to blame this on "Les petites filles pacifists de la France", but we don't know who the other passengers were, they might have been frail or vulnerable themselves and truth be told this could have happened here too, but still... this story just makes me mad.

    The BitB would have taken one of these boys out or been stabbed trying.
     
  2. Bucklion

    Bucklion Throwback Staff Member

    I hate to say anything BITB (or diminish bashing the frogs in any way) but I am seeing more and more of this in this country too. To heck with being directly involved, there are more and more stories about people who won't even call the police if they see a beating or the FD if they see a fire. I don't understand why...because I'm with you, I just don't think I, as an able bodied person, could live with myself if I just sat and watched.
     
  3. DaytonBuck

    DaytonBuck I've always liked them

    I'm with you Bucklion, standing around during something like this wouldn't sit well on my concious. On a similar note I recently read something that said many Jews were leaving France because Anti-Semitic attacks were on the rise.
     
  4. Bucklion

    Bucklion Throwback Staff Member

    I've heard the same thing Dayton, over the last few years.
     
  5. IronBuckI

    IronBuckI Calmer than you are.

    Example of this in our country. 3 out of 4 planes, with much more passengers than hijackers, crash into buildings. It's not just the frogs, in this case. Alot or people think that if they don't get involved, then they can go on living their miserable lives. Alot of people are wrong.
     
  6. kinch

    kinch Wash me Staff Member

    This all reminds me of a classic psych 101 experiment. . .

    A bunch of people take a written test in a room, assuming the test is the experiment.

    The proctor goes into an adjacent room, and people taking the test hear crashing noises, maybe some smoke, whatever.

    Separately, a room with only one person taking the test in the room witnesses the same thing.

    Time and again, the single person checks on the proctor and the room with many people has nobody check. . .
     
  7. MililaniBuckeye

    MililaniBuckeye The satanic soulless freight train that is Ohio St Staff Member Tech Admin

    I'll tell you exactly why no one wants to get involved anyone:

    1.) You could get your ass sued for getting involved. Fucking lawyers.

    2.) If you did get involved and the perps found out who you are, they'll come after your ass and the cops won't protect you.

    Unfortunately, too often coming to another's aid only results in a lose/lose situation.
     
  8. BuckeyeInTheBoro

    BuckeyeInTheBoro This space left intentionally blank

    I hear you, but I think those are just excuses. I'm not saying they're yours... not saying they're not valid problems with our society, but still... they're excuses.

    I chased down a purse snatcher here in the 'boro a couple of years ago. He had knocked a woman down and wrestled with her and she was screaming... 5pm downtown and everyone was pretending they couldn't hear it. My getting involved got him off of her and running. My staying involved got the guy off the streets. Afterwards I heard how stupid a thing it was for me to do...

    What if he had a gun/knife/etc.?
    What if he lead you into a trap?
    What if he finds out who you are?
    What if you'd have hurt him and he sued you?
    What if ...

    My response...

    What if it was your wife/daughter/girlfriend/sister that guy had pinned on the ground between two cars in a parking garage? What if I just walked away like everyone else that heard her screaming?

    Screw "what if..."!!!
     
  9. MililaniBuckeye

    MililaniBuckeye The satanic soulless freight train that is Ohio St Staff Member Tech Admin

    BITB: You supported my position perfectly. Those bystanders reacted exactly how I said the would:

    "What if he finds out who you are?"

    "What if you'd have hurt him and he sued you?"

    Excuses or not, that's how the vast majority of people feel nowadays, and it's because of our fucked up legal system where innocent and/or helful people get punished while criminals have their "rights" given more portection than anyone else's.

    I also applaud your actions in protecting the woman from the purse snatcher. Unfortunately there aren't enough folks like you.
     
  10. BuckeyeInTheBoro

    BuckeyeInTheBoro This space left intentionally blank

    I thought that was probably what you were saying because you don't strike me as the kind of guy who would stand by! Heck you even protect the innocent on message boards! :wink2:
     
  11. RugbyBuck

    RugbyBuck Our church has no bells.

    It's a seriously close call. I agree and hear you both, but I don't know that I'm getting stabbed for somebody I don't know. I grew up in a pretty heavy section of town, my parents were doing the whole '70s urban pioneer schtick back then. You didn't see a lot of shit like this b/c you knew everybody was carrying something and would use it, if they had to. At the same time, nobody was jumping in to save anybody else, either. I'd like to say that I would've helped, but I can't honestly say it. Probably, but... How are you going to feel when you're bleeding out on a train? How are your kids going to grow up? It's a compelling issue. I learned at a very early age to only fight when you have pretty good odds of winning (or of course, if you have no choice, like if it's your wife or kids at stake) and when you do fight, not to hold anything back. Nope, I just don't know, hypocritical or not.

    Of course, part of the hypocrisy is that I do and plan to continue doing some arguably stupid shit on my own when nobody's life is at stake, including my post earlier today about the bull run. This is going to bother me all night. Thanks. :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2004
  12. DiHard

    DiHard Guest

    mili nailed it.......the problem is with the puke lawyers.....used to be a criminal would have gotten his ass kicked by the police if they were caught assaulting a woman...or by their old man when they got home......now they get their picture taken and released....

    why...because there are too many lawyers in this country and way too many have dropped their pants and decided to shove ethics up their ass in order to make some money....

    you can find an "attorney" to sue for anything anymore.....my co-worker asked how my date was last night..thats harrassment....i didnt show up to work for a week and got fired....job discrimination....this guy had the nerve to beat the shit out of me when all i was doing was trying to rape his daughter...sue him for assault....its a joke...just ask rodney king.....

    the biggest dolt heads i grew up with are the ones who are now attorneys....
     
  13. stxbuck

    stxbuck Woody wore Sambas

    Concealed carry-it's a good thing..................
     
  14. methomps

    methomps an imbecility, a stupidity without name

    Completely unfair, IMO. Until 9/11 most people thought hijacking a plane meant holding it for ransom or something. If there is a bomb onboard, fighting the terrorists will only get you killed whereas maybe if you just stay put they might negotiate your release. Look at all the movies involving hijacked airliners. They used to hijack planes for money or to get prisoners released.
     
  15. methomps

    methomps an imbecility, a stupidity without name

    Hmm, it seems this story is still developing


    Report of Anti-Semitic Paris Attack Probed

    By ELAINE GANLEY, Associated Press Writer

    PARIS - Doubts surfaced Monday in news reports about a young mother's claim she had been attacked and robbed on a suburban train by young men who then scrawled swastikas on her stomach.
    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="1%" align=left border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD width="99%"><CENTER><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=150 border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD><CENTER>[​IMG]

    AP Photo </CENTER>

    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></CENTER></TD><TD width=5></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

    Nevertheless, police patrolled suburban trains and studied video from surveillance cameras, trying to track down the six men who allegedly attacked the 23-year-old woman.

    She told police she was robbed by a knife-wielding gang while riding a train with her infant Friday morning. She claimed to have been mistreated after being mistaken for a Jew. None of some 20 witnesses came to her rescue, she told police.

    Investigators trying to track down the culprits had almost no clues to guide them.

    Surveillance cameras at the station where the culprits reportedly left the train showed no young men running from the scene, and no witnesses have come forward despite repeated calls from officials and promises of anonymity.

    Both France-Info radio and the television station LCI reported that the young woman had filed several complaints about violence and aggressive treatment in the past. Neither news outlet provided sources, but LCI said the woman had filed six such complaints. That information could not be immediately confirmed.

    "It is absolutely necessary to have a certitude before speaking," said Paris Police Chief Jean-Paul Proust, when asked about the case on France-2 television. "I have no certitude."

    Despite the doubts being cast on the woman's report, officials continued to issue statements of shock and calls to fight anti-Semitism and passiveness by bystanders.

    Deputy Minister for Victims' Rights Nicole Guedj met with the young mother, then asked witnesses to step forward, particularly a young man said to have been seated near the mother.

    "The gesture that he was not able to make Friday, he must make today," Guedj said.

    Guedj also suggested that witnesses who failed to act at the time would not risk being pursued for non-assistance to a person in danger, a crime in France.

    "It is difficult to go after people who feel themselves to be in danger," she said.

    France was stunned by news of the attack, which emerged over the weekend. The brutality of the aggression, its anti-Semitic character and the fact that no one came to the mother's rescue raised worrisome questions.

    "Anti-Semitism is shameful ... but there is also a sickness in our society," said Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin. "It's indifference to violence."

    He called for courage among citizens, saying that "courage must be quicker than violence."

    Police, their information based on the woman's account, said that the gang, described by the victim as between the ages of 15 and 20, allegedly grabbed the woman's backpack, taking her money and credit cards. When they saw that her identification card said she lived in the wealthy 16th district of Paris, they reportedly told the woman: "There are only Jews in the 16th."

    The woman told police that the men, described as North Africans and blacks, then cut off locks of her hair, opened her shirt with their knives and used markers to draw three swastikas on her stomach.

    Guedj said the woman told her that about 20 people in the train were "capable of seeing" what was happening.

    One of the attackers held the woman by her neck, forcing her to keep her head to the ground so that she couldn't see them, several French newspapers quoted police as saying. Meanwhile, the office of President Jacques Chirac said that crimes involving racism would not be among those benefiting from the traditional Bastille Day pardons on Wednesday.

     

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