B-Ball NCAA Investigation

[JohnnyCockfight]

Wow!! OB not guilty of wrongdoing? This is the first I heard of the money being given AFTER it was determined that Radojevic would not be eligible. This really changes things in my mind if the truth.

This has been OB's contention all along. I know that very fact was my comeback to friends in grad school from all over the country who razzed me about Ohio State when the issue arose.

 

[OH10]

I agree with everything Clarity said.


I just want to add that there is a deterrent factor if a coach can't coach anymore. Quite simply, coaches like their job and their profession. They don't want to lose it, so why cheat? If you give a coach the death penalty, you don't need to punish the players.

I feel terrible for Fuss, Stockman, and Marinchek. The NCAA can go to hell for all I care.

 

[Steve19]

I really appreciate a balanced discussion of OSU penalties on the basketball program and I wonder if it really is good enough to say "fu*k the NCAA".

I agree with Clarity and most of the other posters entirely. It's about punishing the responsible individuals, not a bunch of 18-22 year olds who have looked to play pro ball all their lives and have aspired to the NCAA tournament. And it does look like, in this case, it's the coach. Whatever comes of this, it should be about punishing those responsible.

I will continue to think highly of Jim O'Brien until proven otherwise. But there are concerning questions. The media reported that O'Brien attempted to recruit the Radojevic from Serbia and that, after he had signed a letter of intent, he gave his mother a $6000 loan. It appeared that O'Brien was appealing to the NCAA to ignore the player's pro status from Europe (he had not played long) and to let him play at OSU. My memory is hazy but, if he wasn't arguing this at the very time of this "loan", he was within days before? This wasn't just any kid, he went #12 in the NBA draft once he was disallowed to play.

O'Brien's conduct during this affair has not helped matters. As there was nothing to hide, the NCAA would ask if O'Brien immediately reported this "loan" to the University. The media reports suggested that he did so only years later when the Salyers case was being filed and he knew this would come out in that filing. O'Brien would have known the implications of such a loan at the time he gave it. He would have known what would have happened if it became known in the media.

To say that Radojevic didn't enroll at OSU is a bit of convenience with the truth. It's not like he enrolled at another university. He went pro.

Anyone who knows O'Brien, even we fans, know that this appears to be a stand-up guy with compassion for others. Who could stare at what was going on in Serbia and not feel compassion for what they were going through?

But look at it from the perspective of the NCAA and other universities. What agreements did O'Brien make with this family when he recruited this 7'3'' kid from Serbia? And what about all these other allegations about Savovic? What would we be saying if this stuff happened at UM?

As far as I am concerned O'Brien is right, he should be considered innocent until proven guilty. However, in the current atmosphere of a witch-hunt into OSU athletics by ESPiN, I don't see how AG can do anything but "jump the gun". One need not be a genius to figure out that more is likely to be uncovered, as much as we all don't want to hear about it. And, quite frankly, legal posturing aside, O'Brien has only himself to blame.

So, yeah, this is about the coach but it's also about the University. We need to punish rogue universities that allow NCAA violations in order to "buy" winning teams if we are sticking to amateurism, or what's left of it. Otherwise, we need to just abandon amateurism and simply get on with the business.

Irregardless of this polemic debate, the relevant NCAA rules and process need serious revisiting. Why can't we see these investigations take place in a reasonable time span, so that a coach need not be fired during a year or two-year long investigation? Why can't there be transparency in the way these investigations are conducted and fairness in the application to all universities? Not just when someone of the 'high ethical standing' of Salyers comes out of the woodwork, but through random assessments outside of the control of university administrators. Hell, if the FDIC can put people into everyone of our top 10 banks on a 24/7 basis and give them the legal right to walk into meetings or into any part of the operation any time they please, then why can't the NCAA assign regional inspectors with the same kind of rights? Why wait until a Tennessee or Ohio State is tarred by a group of 'esteemed' ESPiN or NyT journalists?

And what is this nonsense about self-penalties anyway? Geez, "I'll whack myself teacher just to show you I know I was a bad boy?" The process is nonsensical.

In my opinion, O'Brien is both right and wrong. His behavior brought this on us as much as the Salyers affair. If there's any truth to these allegations, then I want the buggers punished, no matter where they may be coaching now. And, while I accept penalties on the program, I think Clarity's suggestion of refunding tournament monies is a hell of a lot more fair than what is taking place.

Anybody for, "...and the horse they rode in on"?

 

[NewYorkBuck]

I understand your post, but dont you think its just a bit coincidental that Obie had this overwhelming feeling of compassion and generosity for a Serbian kid, who, oh yeah, by the way, just happens to be perhaps the highest profile recruit he's ever been this close on. I would like to see his past record of charitable donations to see if it jibes with this. Any way you slice it, a coach giving a recruit or his family money stinks to high heaven of violation, and I cant see how Obie could have thought otherwise. That he didnt report it only makes it stinkier.

Moreover, I think Obie has some balls suing Ohio State. If I were in the know at OSU I would file a lawsuit against him for damages. For millions.....

 

[tsteele316]

I understand your post, but dont you think its just a bit coincidental that Obie had this overwhelming feeling of compassion and generosity for a Serbian kid, who, oh yeah, by the way, just happens to be perhaps the highest profile recruit he's ever been this close on. I would like to see his past record of charitable donations to see if it jibes with this. Any way you slice it, a coach giving a recruit or his family money stinks to high heaven of violation, and I cant see how Obie could have thought otherwise. That he didnt report it only makes it stinkier.

I do believe the kid committed to osu, but he did not sign his LOI at the time the loan was given. It's still a violation either way, but it really does more to establish OB's motive for the loan.

 

[Steve19]

I understand your post, but dont you think its just a bit coincidental that Obie had this overwhelming feeling of compassion and generosity for a Serbian kid, who, oh yeah, by the way, just happens to be perhaps the highest profile recruit he's ever been this close on. I would like to see his past record of charitable donations to see if it jibes with this. Any way you slice it, a coach giving a recruit or his family money stinks to high heaven of violation, and I cant see how Obie could have thought otherwise. That he didnt report it only makes it stinkier.

Moreover, I think Obie has some balls suing Ohio State. If I were in the know at OSU I would file a lawsuit against him for damages. For millions.....

Please don't miss my point, NewYorkBuck. I think the NCAA process in these investigations is terrible. How long will this go on before it is resolved?

I have thought very highly of O'Brien. I think that one of the things that makes America great is that one is innocent until proven guilty. It's one of our strengths that we actually believe that.

However, I agree with your point and that is what I was trying to say. I came to know Fred Taylor as a kid and I am very certain that he would never have done anything like this.

Look at the timing. O'Brien was losing Redd and Penn. He had been to the Final Four and one could argue that he knew that he did not have the talent to get there without someone like this kid. There were big expectations. His behavior suggests something other than openness and transparency!

But, no more than I am willing to judge AG and JT, I am not willing to judge JOB. The thread suggests that most people think he shouldn't have been fired. I think we need to interogate that. I am not sure, given what we know now, how he could not have been fired. I agree with you that his benevolence seems very convenient and his recounting of dates and motives doesn't match my understanding of these events as reported. I am not sure how we could have gone forward with him on the program.

But, it doesn't matter what I think. The man deserves due process and justice delayed is justice denied. He deserves to present his case. If he is indeed proven guilty, then the courts will settle the costs in OSU's favor. My feeling is that we just get through this and get through it now, for the sake of O'Brien and OSU.

 

[NewYorkBuck]

Steve - I see - your just taking the "innocent till proven" stance, and I have no problem with that. Its prob the right way to go. Actually, I respect your restraint here - its easy for some (me included) to get caught up in a witch hunt after sanctions.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

keep in mind obie was on the hot seat and probably only had one more year to put together a decent team or he would have been gone anyways.

 

[chris120870]

I think this is my first post on this board. I am not sure how many of you will agree with me on this. I know this is not possible but it would be nice. It is too bad that the NCAA could not put the punishment were it belongs. Maybe something like giving any team that hires O'Brien in the future gets 4 less scholly's for a year or two, or gets the post season play probation rather than kids that had nothing to do with the "crimes".