-
Follow us on Twitter @buckeyeplanet and @bp_recruiting, like us on Facebook! Enjoy a post or article, recommend it to others! BP is only as strong as its community, and we only promote by word of mouth, so share away!
- Thread starter bucknut74
- Start date
Sloopy45
Pimp Minister Sinister
Oh, and one other thing: this is the most interesting stat of the whole story. Bonds allegedly got involved with BALCO and started taking the roids in 2000. Bill James, the noted baseball historian, took the distances of each and every one of Bonds' Home Runs in his entire career and the weather conditions of each game and came up with this:
Pre-2000, Bonds hit 3 Home Runs that traveled 455+ feet, and all three were aided by 15 mph winds. Since 2000, he has hit 26 Homers of 455+ feet. TWENTY-SIX!! Repeat: 26 in four seasons, versus THREE in sixteen seasons!!
That's some powerful "flax-seed oil and balm" that Bonds was taking from Greg Anderson and BALCO.
Pre-2000, Bonds hit 3 Home Runs that traveled 455+ feet, and all three were aided by 15 mph winds. Since 2000, he has hit 26 Homers of 455+ feet. TWENTY-SIX!! Repeat: 26 in four seasons, versus THREE in sixteen seasons!!
That's some powerful "flax-seed oil and balm" that Bonds was taking from Greg Anderson and BALCO.
Upvote
0
Sloopy45
Pimp Minister Sinister
Luca: "but how you going to leave out 191 and 110 as magic numbers?"
What are those?? I can only guess that 110 is Walter Johnson's Shutout record. Is that correct?
Tibbs: "The RBI record doesn't have that kind of awe surrounding it."
Isn't the RBI record 190??
What are those?? I can only guess that 110 is Walter Johnson's Shutout record. Is that correct?
Tibbs: "The RBI record doesn't have that kind of awe surrounding it."
Isn't the RBI record 190??
Upvote
0
They aren't considered magic numbers because nobody has seriously approached them. Every year, someone has a monster first half and gets Hack Wilson's name swirling....by August, it is not heard again.tibor75 said:
Still prominent numbers in baseball though...
[font=verdana,arial,helvetica][font=arial, helvetica]That remarkable 1930 season he set two legendary marks. The 56 home runs he walloped were a National League record that stood until 1998, when Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa both obliterated his -- and Roger Maris' -- record. But the single-season record that still stands from that year was his RBI mark of 190 -- later to be officially changed in the record books in 1999 to 191, as he became one of the first dead players ever to notch an RBI. Though contenders to the crown have come close, no player has gotten within 25 RBIs of the mark since 1938.tibor75 said:
LINK
Stick to Cricket homeboy
[/font][/font]
Upvote
0
Sloopy45
Pimp Minister Sinister
Luca: "But the single-season record that still stands from that year was his RBI mark of 190 -- later to be officially changed in the record books in 1999 to 191, as he became one of the first dead players ever to notch an RBI."
Great, GREAT job with this. I had no idea. Thanks for the info.
But back to your point: I don't think that 191 or 110 hold the same "magic" or cache that 56 or the other numbers have. And I'll tell you why:
191: First off, most fans don't even know who Hack Wilson is. I don't even know if Wilson is a Hall of Famer. For a record to really have pizzazz in the minds of fans, I think it has to come from an all-time great. And lets face it: this is a record that stood for years and was changed in 1999 and most fans didn't even know about it. Could you imagine the uproar if someone went back into DiMaggio's 57th game and found out that Kenny Keltner didn't throw him out? It would be a huge, huge story! Therefore, as unbreakable and impressive as 191 is, I say it doesn't hold the same esteem in the minds of fans.
110: This one doesn't have the same zing to it either because its a turn of the century mark that really is unbreakable. Since its really not in the realm of possibility that anyone, ANYONE (especially in today's game) ever approaches this record, I don't think it gets the attention it deserves. Much like Cy Young's 511 wins. In my mind, 511 wins is THE most unbreakable record in all of sports. No one will ever come within 120 wins of this mark. Its a record that will stand for the rest of time, and our great-great-great grandkids will never see broken. But yet, no one ever mentions it, and I think its because it is completely unattainable.
FYI: Career shutout leaders since 1950: Warren Spahn: 63, Nolan Ryan: 61, Tom Seaver: 61, and Bert Blyleven: 60. That record won't EVER be touched. Roger Clemens has 46, SIXTY-FOUR away from the record.
Great, GREAT job with this. I had no idea. Thanks for the info.
But back to your point: I don't think that 191 or 110 hold the same "magic" or cache that 56 or the other numbers have. And I'll tell you why:
191: First off, most fans don't even know who Hack Wilson is. I don't even know if Wilson is a Hall of Famer. For a record to really have pizzazz in the minds of fans, I think it has to come from an all-time great. And lets face it: this is a record that stood for years and was changed in 1999 and most fans didn't even know about it. Could you imagine the uproar if someone went back into DiMaggio's 57th game and found out that Kenny Keltner didn't throw him out? It would be a huge, huge story! Therefore, as unbreakable and impressive as 191 is, I say it doesn't hold the same esteem in the minds of fans.
110: This one doesn't have the same zing to it either because its a turn of the century mark that really is unbreakable. Since its really not in the realm of possibility that anyone, ANYONE (especially in today's game) ever approaches this record, I don't think it gets the attention it deserves. Much like Cy Young's 511 wins. In my mind, 511 wins is THE most unbreakable record in all of sports. No one will ever come within 120 wins of this mark. Its a record that will stand for the rest of time, and our great-great-great grandkids will never see broken. But yet, no one ever mentions it, and I think its because it is completely unattainable.
FYI: Career shutout leaders since 1950: Warren Spahn: 63, Nolan Ryan: 61, Tom Seaver: 61, and Bert Blyleven: 60. That record won't EVER be touched. Roger Clemens has 46, SIXTY-FOUR away from the record.
Upvote
0
Great research on the stats Sloops...
I guess I think everyone is a stat buff like myself, and a number of guys around here, are. Manny Ramirez and Juan Gonzalez have made runs which died late in the season so I figured Hack Wilson's name would have more recognition.
Good discussion
and Hack is in the HOF (Veteran's Committee in 1979)
I guess I think everyone is a stat buff like myself, and a number of guys around here, are. Manny Ramirez and Juan Gonzalez have made runs which died late in the season so I figured Hack Wilson's name would have more recognition.
Good discussion
and Hack is in the HOF (Veteran's Committee in 1979)
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Sloopy45
Pimp Minister Sinister
Luca: "Good discussion"
Ditto. And to reinforce my point a little more about the great player + cache + record = (quote, unquote) "magic number." just look at .406. .406 isn't the single season batting average mark, in fact, its 19th all time! Not even close! But all you hear about is Ted Williams' .406 in '41.
Do you even know who the single season record holder is? Or what the mark is? I didn't, I had to look it up: Hugh Duffy, .440 in 1894.
And if you want another record that's absolutely UNBREAKABLE that no one ever mentions: Ty Cobb, .367 lifetime Average. You can easily argue that as the most unattainable record in all of sports.
Here are the modern players near the leader board who aren't even CLOSE to Cobb: 18. Todd Helton: .339, 21. Tony Gwynn: .339, 34. Wade Boggs: .328, 35. Rod Carew: .329, 40. Vladimir Guerrero: .325. The players I just gave you have 20 batting titles among them (Helton - 1, Gwynn - 7, Boggs - 5, Carew - 7, and Vlad - 0) and the closest is 38 points shy of Cobb. 38 lifetime batting average points is eight country miles!! Even the guy who's # 2 on that list (the greatest right-handed hitter of all time, Rogers Hornsby) is 8 points shy of the mark. Horsby is .359 lifetime, hit .400 THREE times in his career, and is one of two men (Ted Williams is the other) to win two Triple Crowns.
Ditto. And to reinforce my point a little more about the great player + cache + record = (quote, unquote) "magic number." just look at .406. .406 isn't the single season batting average mark, in fact, its 19th all time! Not even close! But all you hear about is Ted Williams' .406 in '41.
Do you even know who the single season record holder is? Or what the mark is? I didn't, I had to look it up: Hugh Duffy, .440 in 1894.
And if you want another record that's absolutely UNBREAKABLE that no one ever mentions: Ty Cobb, .367 lifetime Average. You can easily argue that as the most unattainable record in all of sports.
Here are the modern players near the leader board who aren't even CLOSE to Cobb: 18. Todd Helton: .339, 21. Tony Gwynn: .339, 34. Wade Boggs: .328, 35. Rod Carew: .329, 40. Vladimir Guerrero: .325. The players I just gave you have 20 batting titles among them (Helton - 1, Gwynn - 7, Boggs - 5, Carew - 7, and Vlad - 0) and the closest is 38 points shy of Cobb. 38 lifetime batting average points is eight country miles!! Even the guy who's # 2 on that list (the greatest right-handed hitter of all time, Rogers Hornsby) is 8 points shy of the mark. Horsby is .359 lifetime, hit .400 THREE times in his career, and is one of two men (Ted Williams is the other) to win two Triple Crowns.
Upvote
0
Beenthere77
Senior
Baseball management knows exactly what was going on with the roids. It was those roid induced HR races that brought baseball attendance back from the brink after the disastrous strike in the 90s. They're still counting all the multimillions Bonds has generated with the help of roids.
Upvote
0
Sloopy45
Pimp Minister Sinister
Luca: "and Hack is in the HOF (Veteran's Committee in 1979)"
I just looked up Wilson's numbers, and he's a marginal HOF'er at best. Without the RBI mark, I don't think this guy would sniff Cooperstown: No MVPs, 244 lifetime Homers, .307 lifetime, 1,063 RBIs, no batting titles, 1,461 Hits, and only one 200 hit season.
All he's got is the RBI mark and four home run Titles. And most of those Home Run Titles are tainted at best because he led the NL in Homers in '26, '27, and '28 with 21, 30, and 31, respectively. There was a fat man in the Bronx those same seasons who won home run titles in the AL with 47, 60, and 54.
I just looked up Wilson's numbers, and he's a marginal HOF'er at best. Without the RBI mark, I don't think this guy would sniff Cooperstown: No MVPs, 244 lifetime Homers, .307 lifetime, 1,063 RBIs, no batting titles, 1,461 Hits, and only one 200 hit season.
All he's got is the RBI mark and four home run Titles. And most of those Home Run Titles are tainted at best because he led the NL in Homers in '26, '27, and '28 with 21, 30, and 31, respectively. There was a fat man in the Bronx those same seasons who won home run titles in the AL with 47, 60, and 54.
Upvote
0
I also thin Johnny VanDerMeer's (can't fricking spell it) back-to-back no-hitters will never be repeated either. I forget the total number of no-hit innings he had in a row, but I think it was over 20.
But hey, do we really think that baseball*** and records** will be affected that much in the modern era* ? (yes, that's all sarcasm)
But hey, do we really think that baseball*** and records** will be affected that much in the modern era* ? (yes, that's all sarcasm)
Upvote
0