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StoRMinBrutus
Great 2 B A Buckeyes !!!
DiHard ,
It's purposes are to opens up rushing lanes for the Offense. The wider splits (in theory) also makes the path to the QB farther away for the opposing defenses because they are spread out from sideline to sideline, lined up acrross from the O-line. You have to have a pretty good O-line to accomplish this due to the fact that defenses start shooting the gaps. If the defense has great speed too, then thats the key ingredient to countering the wider splits. A good O-line can pick up those d-linemen shooting the gaps and take the opposing player right out of the play easily. This generally takes alot of pressure off of the O-line too but they have to have excellent communication as to their assignments. If not then there is a fast attack on the QB and/or the RB's. OSU is nowhere near that point yet. They may try it from time to time but they have to pick up on their assignments and communicate alot better IMO.
OSU has had trouble with opposing teams that are in fact lining up in the gaps even now because of OSU's problems with communications/lack of sustaining blocks and they have been able to take advantage of OSU's O-line growing pains. Also spacing between the O-linemen does change due to the different schemes, philosophies and situations. It usually changes between a pass play and a run play (the spacing that is) though.
This is only my assumption, but the reason why OSU is in close formation is for max protections. At least until they learn their assignments, communicate, and sustain blocks alot better.
That could lead us into a total explanation of a spread offense but you only asked for the O-line splits
It's purposes are to opens up rushing lanes for the Offense. The wider splits (in theory) also makes the path to the QB farther away for the opposing defenses because they are spread out from sideline to sideline, lined up acrross from the O-line. You have to have a pretty good O-line to accomplish this due to the fact that defenses start shooting the gaps. If the defense has great speed too, then thats the key ingredient to countering the wider splits. A good O-line can pick up those d-linemen shooting the gaps and take the opposing player right out of the play easily. This generally takes alot of pressure off of the O-line too but they have to have excellent communication as to their assignments. If not then there is a fast attack on the QB and/or the RB's. OSU is nowhere near that point yet. They may try it from time to time but they have to pick up on their assignments and communicate alot better IMO.
OSU has had trouble with opposing teams that are in fact lining up in the gaps even now because of OSU's problems with communications/lack of sustaining blocks and they have been able to take advantage of OSU's O-line growing pains. Also spacing between the O-linemen does change due to the different schemes, philosophies and situations. It usually changes between a pass play and a run play (the spacing that is) though.
This is only my assumption, but the reason why OSU is in close formation is for max protections. At least until they learn their assignments, communicate, and sustain blocks alot better.
That could lead us into a total explanation of a spread offense but you only asked for the O-line splits
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horseshoe1
All-American
If the cheerleaders play on the offensive line then I definately want to be the quarterback. The old quarterback sneak trick.
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KillerNut
Banned
All good points here, well except maybe that cheerleader ones, but the O line with wider splits are looking to create better angles to attact the defense. As far as it being a give away, the gaps should not be so large that it is obvious what is going on.
The hand holding also helps in noise situations because when the ball is hiked each linemen progressively drops their hand and starts to block, thus avoiding false starts. This is almost always a pass block techniqe or a draw.
As far as which is better I think it is determined somewhat based on what you are looking to do. I would think that because we are in a Zone blocking scheme creating angles of attacking the D-line is not as important as keeping D-linemen/LBs/DB's from shoting gaps on the blitz, thus we make the gaps smaller. We are not Firing out and driving, instead we allow the defender to create the angle and then attempt to drive him out of the way.
One of the reason's this is not working is because we do not stay low there fore we dance with the defender instead of drive. It is really pass blocking on running plays is what our O-line has been doing on a lot of plays, if you understand the difference.
Now if you are drive blocking a defender and someone shoots into your gap when your going to get somebody they will "cross your face" so you pick up that defender and drive him in to the defender that you were going to pick up causing if nothing else a traffic jam and keeping them from making the play in the hole. However because this type of blocking doesn't wait for the defense to create the angle offensive linemen create the angle with their splits. Generally if it is a run inside o-linemen will make the hole that they are running into split a little bigger and probably a little bigger on each side, not noticeably. This works because defenders line up base on where the o-linemen are. If it is a sweep or an off tackle running play then the splits get much tighter so that you pack the defenders inside, making it easier to get the edge.
Another thing teams will do even in passing situations some times O-linemen will get wide splits if they are trying to eliminate a speed rusher on the outside. This leaves you open for other problems so it is not common, but if it forces the DE/LB further away from your QB and you can still pick up all the rushers up the middle then it will give your QB more time to throw the football.
I hope I filled any gaps that were still there (no pun intended).
As far as which is better, I still think we should be drive blocking, but I never zoned blocked so maybe it is easier? As a DE zone blocking I always thought was much easier to defeat, but usually it was bad teams that used it.
The hand holding also helps in noise situations because when the ball is hiked each linemen progressively drops their hand and starts to block, thus avoiding false starts. This is almost always a pass block techniqe or a draw.
As far as which is better I think it is determined somewhat based on what you are looking to do. I would think that because we are in a Zone blocking scheme creating angles of attacking the D-line is not as important as keeping D-linemen/LBs/DB's from shoting gaps on the blitz, thus we make the gaps smaller. We are not Firing out and driving, instead we allow the defender to create the angle and then attempt to drive him out of the way.
One of the reason's this is not working is because we do not stay low there fore we dance with the defender instead of drive. It is really pass blocking on running plays is what our O-line has been doing on a lot of plays, if you understand the difference.
Now if you are drive blocking a defender and someone shoots into your gap when your going to get somebody they will "cross your face" so you pick up that defender and drive him in to the defender that you were going to pick up causing if nothing else a traffic jam and keeping them from making the play in the hole. However because this type of blocking doesn't wait for the defense to create the angle offensive linemen create the angle with their splits. Generally if it is a run inside o-linemen will make the hole that they are running into split a little bigger and probably a little bigger on each side, not noticeably. This works because defenders line up base on where the o-linemen are. If it is a sweep or an off tackle running play then the splits get much tighter so that you pack the defenders inside, making it easier to get the edge.
Another thing teams will do even in passing situations some times O-linemen will get wide splits if they are trying to eliminate a speed rusher on the outside. This leaves you open for other problems so it is not common, but if it forces the DE/LB further away from your QB and you can still pick up all the rushers up the middle then it will give your QB more time to throw the football.
I hope I filled any gaps that were still there (no pun intended).
As far as which is better, I still think we should be drive blocking, but I never zoned blocked so maybe it is easier? As a DE zone blocking I always thought was much easier to defeat, but usually it was bad teams that used it.
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slobberknocker
All-American
DiHard said:
dihard you *(^&^$^%%#$%^%$%%^%#%^ I brought this up in another thread a couple of days ago.
thief just joshing ya dihard
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DiHard
Guest
sorry slobberknocker....my fault....i was just watching the louisville game last night and couldnt believe how wide their spacing was....
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craigblitz
Juice, Full of Juice!!
Haaha I loved the comment on the teams that usually did zone blocking stunk... I have to agree as an OLB and a rush DE I loved going against zone blocking. Pick a Gap and destroy what was in your way. The reason why zone blocking was used was because often times the bad teams did not have the size to drive block anyone. The zone block scheme has to be executed perfectly to work, it is like you mirror you man and it really puts the pressure on the RB to find a hole to pick. Having a SR. who is having some issues with that and Freshman out there I understand why maybe our running game is not up to par...
I agree, I think we need to see a little more drive blocking but what do I know. Go Bucks!!!
here is a good link to zone blocking http://espn.go.com/ncf/columns/davie/1440703.html
"Zone blocking was created to handle moving defensive linemen. It is a simple concept, but it takes a lot of practice because it involves offensive linemen working in unison and decisions have to be made while the play is taking place. In zone blocking, you don't have a lot of different assignments, but you have a lot of techniques. It takes many repetitions to get the feel of working together as a unit. The diversity of zone blocking comes by the back running different angles and by the offense using different formations to confuse the defense."
I agree, I think we need to see a little more drive blocking but what do I know. Go Bucks!!!
here is a good link to zone blocking http://espn.go.com/ncf/columns/davie/1440703.html
"Zone blocking was created to handle moving defensive linemen. It is a simple concept, but it takes a lot of practice because it involves offensive linemen working in unison and decisions have to be made while the play is taking place. In zone blocking, you don't have a lot of different assignments, but you have a lot of techniques. It takes many repetitions to get the feel of working together as a unit. The diversity of zone blocking comes by the back running different angles and by the offense using different formations to confuse the defense."
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Def
Junior
Another factor that may disadvantage the O-line is that the play gets in so late under Tressel that Zwick doesn't get under center until there about 2s left a lot of times. Might be pretty easy for the defense to anticipate the snap and negate the suprise advantage the O-line has in firing off the ball.
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StoRMinBrutus
Great 2 B A Buckeyes !!!
Why look any further than what our PB Experts can tell you ??
Basics of the Offensive Line
written by osugrad21 and exhawg (6/5/2004)
Offensive line play is an intricate game of angles, schemes, and match-ups that will usually decide the outcome of a game. The realm of offensive line play is a vast area of techniques, audibles, and adjustments that cannot be completely covered in this forum. However, hopefully this series of blogs will help to answer some of your questions regarding the line.
We will start out with the absolute basics of the offensive line and then use ExHawg's expertise to explain the differences in Zone blocking vs. Drive blocking.
Golden Rules of O-Line play: First and foremost, an offensive lineman must always keep his head up and his helmet to the playside. In other words, the helmet must always be in between the ballcarrier and the defender. Next, the feet must NEVER stop moving. Dead feet equate to zero push at the point of attack which causes a stalemate. The defense wins in a stalemate situation. Finally, the block must be carried out until the whistle blows. A great offensive lineman will finish his block whether it ends in a pancake or driving the defender into the sideline.
Splits: The term Splits refers to the spacing between the offensive lineman. Although the splits will change with various offensive philosophies and situations, the common split rule is 2-3-3. In other words, there should be two steps between the center and guard and three steps between the guard and tackle or tackle and tight end. In passing situations, short yard situations, or trap instances, the splits can be lessened or widened according to the play.
Ten Essential Offensive Line Blocks
1) Drive Block--The drive block is the simplest of blocks in that it is a one-on-one matchup with the defender. The lineman will fire off low and fast to meet the defender. Once the contact is made, the helmet will slide to playside and the feet will churn to drive the defender out of the running lane.
2) Read Block--The read block is exactly like the drive block except that the lineman will "read" the direction of the defender and simply *** ist him in that direction. The back will read the block and make the appropriate cut.
3) Hook Block--The hook block is usually designated for the tight end or the tackle if the ball is being run to the weak side. The hook block happens when the lineman takes a quick step to the outside then seals the defender inside. This is frequently seen on sweeps or quick tosses in order to allow the back to turn the corner on the defense. If the hook block is unsuccessful, the defender can move laterally to stretch the play thus giving the defense time to pursue the play and stop it.
4) Double Team--The double team block is self-explanatory. Two lineman will bear down on a defender, the most immediate threat to the play, to negate his potential of clogging the running lane. For instance, many off tackle plays will call for the tight end to come down hard to *** ist the offensive tackle. This leaves the fullback to "kick" the defensive end and open the running lane for the back.
5) Trap Block--The trap block is usually performed by the guards. If an outside trap is called, the tight end will either veer release to a linebacker or double team the defensive tackle. This leaves the defensive end free to penetrate into the backfield. The trap comes from the backside guard who will "pull" down the line to kick the exposed end out of the play. The fullback will usually fill the hole left by the pulling guard while the tailback will take a jab step, as if following the fullback, but then counter back to get in the hip pocket of the guard. The running lane is created as the back cuts off to the inside of the guard's block.
6) The G Block-- Although the terminology is widely varied on this block, this type of block occurs when the playside guard or tackle will pull to lead the play. For instance, many forms of the toss sweep will have the guard or tackle G to lead the back to the outside. The philosophy in this block is that the defender who is left unblocked will not be fast enough to hinder the play.
7) Seal or Cutoff Block--This type of block occurs on the backside of a play. If the ball is being run to the opposite side of the line, the backside lineman will seal off the defenders by turning them away from the ballcarrier. This is used to prevent backside pursuit from busting the play.
8) Fold Block or Cross Block--The fold or cross block is when two offensive lineman take advantage of pre-existing angles by "X-ing." For instance, if the play is coming off-tackle, the tight end may fire down on the defensive tackle to wash him inside while the tackle fires off to the tight end's outside pocket to block the defensive end. This type of block is based on timing and communication. The lineman must be clear on which blocker will fire first and whether it will be to the inside or outside.
9) Combo Block--A combo block is a temporary double team block where one player will peel off of the double team to move onto another block...usually a linebacker. For example, if a combo is called for the guard and tackle, the tackle will fire down on the defensive tackle while the guard "posts" his helmet into the defender's chest while working his helmet to playside. As soon as the guard has favorable position on the defensive tackle, the offensive tackle will peel off of the double team to move onto the second level and seal the Mike linebacker.
10) Cut Block--The cut block is used on plays like quick passes where the defender must be taken down quickly to open a passing lane. In this block, the lineman will immediately fire into the legs of the defender to cut his legs out. This block is also called the "pee hole" block for obvious anatomical reasons.
Basics of the Offensive Line
written by osugrad21 and exhawg (6/5/2004)
Offensive line play is an intricate game of angles, schemes, and match-ups that will usually decide the outcome of a game. The realm of offensive line play is a vast area of techniques, audibles, and adjustments that cannot be completely covered in this forum. However, hopefully this series of blogs will help to answer some of your questions regarding the line.
We will start out with the absolute basics of the offensive line and then use ExHawg's expertise to explain the differences in Zone blocking vs. Drive blocking.
Golden Rules of O-Line play: First and foremost, an offensive lineman must always keep his head up and his helmet to the playside. In other words, the helmet must always be in between the ballcarrier and the defender. Next, the feet must NEVER stop moving. Dead feet equate to zero push at the point of attack which causes a stalemate. The defense wins in a stalemate situation. Finally, the block must be carried out until the whistle blows. A great offensive lineman will finish his block whether it ends in a pancake or driving the defender into the sideline.
Splits: The term Splits refers to the spacing between the offensive lineman. Although the splits will change with various offensive philosophies and situations, the common split rule is 2-3-3. In other words, there should be two steps between the center and guard and three steps between the guard and tackle or tackle and tight end. In passing situations, short yard situations, or trap instances, the splits can be lessened or widened according to the play.
Ten Essential Offensive Line Blocks
1) Drive Block--The drive block is the simplest of blocks in that it is a one-on-one matchup with the defender. The lineman will fire off low and fast to meet the defender. Once the contact is made, the helmet will slide to playside and the feet will churn to drive the defender out of the running lane.
2) Read Block--The read block is exactly like the drive block except that the lineman will "read" the direction of the defender and simply *** ist him in that direction. The back will read the block and make the appropriate cut.
3) Hook Block--The hook block is usually designated for the tight end or the tackle if the ball is being run to the weak side. The hook block happens when the lineman takes a quick step to the outside then seals the defender inside. This is frequently seen on sweeps or quick tosses in order to allow the back to turn the corner on the defense. If the hook block is unsuccessful, the defender can move laterally to stretch the play thus giving the defense time to pursue the play and stop it.
4) Double Team--The double team block is self-explanatory. Two lineman will bear down on a defender, the most immediate threat to the play, to negate his potential of clogging the running lane. For instance, many off tackle plays will call for the tight end to come down hard to *** ist the offensive tackle. This leaves the fullback to "kick" the defensive end and open the running lane for the back.
5) Trap Block--The trap block is usually performed by the guards. If an outside trap is called, the tight end will either veer release to a linebacker or double team the defensive tackle. This leaves the defensive end free to penetrate into the backfield. The trap comes from the backside guard who will "pull" down the line to kick the exposed end out of the play. The fullback will usually fill the hole left by the pulling guard while the tailback will take a jab step, as if following the fullback, but then counter back to get in the hip pocket of the guard. The running lane is created as the back cuts off to the inside of the guard's block.
6) The G Block-- Although the terminology is widely varied on this block, this type of block occurs when the playside guard or tackle will pull to lead the play. For instance, many forms of the toss sweep will have the guard or tackle G to lead the back to the outside. The philosophy in this block is that the defender who is left unblocked will not be fast enough to hinder the play.
7) Seal or Cutoff Block--This type of block occurs on the backside of a play. If the ball is being run to the opposite side of the line, the backside lineman will seal off the defenders by turning them away from the ballcarrier. This is used to prevent backside pursuit from busting the play.
8) Fold Block or Cross Block--The fold or cross block is when two offensive lineman take advantage of pre-existing angles by "X-ing." For instance, if the play is coming off-tackle, the tight end may fire down on the defensive tackle to wash him inside while the tackle fires off to the tight end's outside pocket to block the defensive end. This type of block is based on timing and communication. The lineman must be clear on which blocker will fire first and whether it will be to the inside or outside.
9) Combo Block--A combo block is a temporary double team block where one player will peel off of the double team to move onto another block...usually a linebacker. For example, if a combo is called for the guard and tackle, the tackle will fire down on the defensive tackle while the guard "posts" his helmet into the defender's chest while working his helmet to playside. As soon as the guard has favorable position on the defensive tackle, the offensive tackle will peel off of the double team to move onto the second level and seal the Mike linebacker.
10) Cut Block--The cut block is used on plays like quick passes where the defender must be taken down quickly to open a passing lane. In this block, the lineman will immediately fire into the legs of the defender to cut his legs out. This block is also called the "pee hole" block for obvious anatomical reasons.
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In the Texas Tech game I saw a couple of weeks ago, they varied their splits a great deal. They had very wide ones most of the time, but occasionally tightened them up. This usually happened in the red zone, but it wasn't limited to that. And they also did it just to vary the looks for the defense; they didn't always run with the tight splits.
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