scroll up and see the quoted text in grad's post. I think he has the potential to rival Jordan. Jordan was not a legend when he was 1-9 in the playoffs.
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Captain Hindsight
The Hero of the Modern Age
C'mon how about a little love for LeBron? The guy won his first playoff series he competed in. So far, his rival, Carmelo Anthony, has failed to win a series in his first three playoff series, and as ScarletNGrey mentioned, Michael Jordan started off very slowly in the playoffs, and he was a rookie at the age of 21 and 22. LeBron looks like a five year veteran, and the guy hasn't even hit his prime yet. It's scary thinking about what this guy is going to be capable of accomplishing, when he's finally surrounded by the best talent possible (which looks like the Cavs' organization is starting to supply).
If LeBron somehow manages to dethrone the back-to-back Eastern Conference Champs in the Detroit Pistons, then that would look mighty impressive on his resume, at the age of 21. Although that seems quite unlikely, it would certainly be another achievement that LeBron could add to his already impressive list of achievements.
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this has nothing to do with love for lebron or his potential (which I'm very high on), or what kind of a legend he could become. Read the convo from the last page.
then I'll nominate him a legend among 21 year olds.
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crazybuckfan40
Head Coach
As for the series, man it is a breath of fresh breath to be over and for us to come out of there alive. This team played like they were vetrans to the playoffs in their last two wins. LBJ is quickly becoming the second coming of MJ, and even Scottie Pippen said that he thinks LBJ will be better.
I also wonder what all the ppl that were knocking DJ are saying know, they are probably saying how much they love him and blah blah blah, that is why you back your own all season, you may get down on them and say that there are better players, but you still have to back them.
As for Eddie Jordan, I think he might be the whiniest coach ever, he came out on the floor on a play when the foul clearly would of been called against Arenas if anything, b/c he initiated the contacted the whole way with his off arm. And then Daniels at the end of the game was clearly not fouled he just threw up a shot and acted like he was actually being touched.
And I still can't figure out why we get no respect, I know the Refs blew a couple calls, but they have blown them both ways all series. All they have talked about was that the layup blown by Arenas Andy had his hand through the basket, well it was easy for a ref to miss that and Arenas choked anyway, but not making the layup that Andy didnt effect in anyway, b/c he didnt touch it.
EDIT: No rep discussion on the boards please. Take it to PMs.
I also wonder what all the ppl that were knocking DJ are saying know, they are probably saying how much they love him and blah blah blah, that is why you back your own all season, you may get down on them and say that there are better players, but you still have to back them.
As for Eddie Jordan, I think he might be the whiniest coach ever, he came out on the floor on a play when the foul clearly would of been called against Arenas if anything, b/c he initiated the contacted the whole way with his off arm. And then Daniels at the end of the game was clearly not fouled he just threw up a shot and acted like he was actually being touched.
And I still can't figure out why we get no respect, I know the Refs blew a couple calls, but they have blown them both ways all series. All they have talked about was that the layup blown by Arenas Andy had his hand through the basket, well it was easy for a ref to miss that and Arenas choked anyway, but not making the layup that Andy didnt effect in anyway, b/c he didnt touch it.
EDIT: No rep discussion on the boards please. Take it to PMs.
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Captain Hindsight
The Hero of the Modern Age
I'll agree with you. In my mind, LeBron is not yet a "legend," but morseo of an NBA superstar/phenom. It's pretty hard to call someone a legend after only three years of NBA experience. However, it is easy to distinguish a legend from a superstar. In order to achieve "legendary" status, LeBron must win at least one championship, (and more than likely to be considered a "legend"), multiple championships. So in other words, you were right about him not being a "legend," yet, but more of a once in a generation player that we have the priviledge of watching emerge. My bad, JWins.
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buckeyeboy
Still fortitudinous
I just watched Sportscenter, and of course 3 of the 4 members of the NBA tonight crew (maybe that's not what they're called, but it's the 4 guys who broadcast from the Times Square studio, and today it was John Saunders, Tim Legler, Greg Anthony, and Scottie Pippen) discussed for several minutes how Varejao should have been called for a goaltend on Arenas's missed layup at the end of regulation (only Anthony disagreed).
I knew the Arenas apologists would be out in full force on Sportscenter. Instead of giving LeBron and the Cavs due credit for winning a very competitive series and simply admitting that Arenas didn't step up at critical times last night (not only the missed layup which was NOT affected at all IMO by Varejao, but also the two missed free throws at the end of OT), Sportscenter instead had to take away from the Cavs' victory by implying the victory was simply due to referee error. The segment even ended with Saunders claiming that the Wizards fans will feel they got the short end of the stick when it comes to officiating. I watched the whole series, and I thought there were bad calls on both sides of the ball; to imply that the Cavs were the sole beneficiaries of bad officiating is, at the very least, ridiculous.
I knew the Arenas apologists would be out in full force on Sportscenter. Instead of giving LeBron and the Cavs due credit for winning a very competitive series and simply admitting that Arenas didn't step up at critical times last night (not only the missed layup which was NOT affected at all IMO by Varejao, but also the two missed free throws at the end of OT), Sportscenter instead had to take away from the Cavs' victory by implying the victory was simply due to referee error. The segment even ended with Saunders claiming that the Wizards fans will feel they got the short end of the stick when it comes to officiating. I watched the whole series, and I thought there were bad calls on both sides of the ball; to imply that the Cavs were the sole beneficiaries of bad officiating is, at the very least, ridiculous.
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Ah, the "Miracle at Richfield". I remember it well (from TV, I lived hundreds of miles away). Those were some good times. Snyder, Carr, Bingo Smith, Nate Thurmond, etc. Great over-achieving team.
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Well, conspiracy theorists who said the refs wanted a game 7 should be calmed down by the no-call on Varejao's hand going through the net/rim on Arenas's missed layup. I was pulling for the Cavs, but that call should have been made. Overall I thought the refs did a good job, Arenas wasn't getting many calls on the bumps he initiated like he was earlier in the series.
But how can you not be within 10 feet of Gilbert Arenas with a 3-point lead and 5 seconds to play? He had already swished a pair of 26-footers earlier in the game. The Cavs definitely should have fouled in that situation. I don't foul with a 3-point lead at 10 seconds, but I do at 5, especially when the other team has no timeouts left. That makes a huge difference, and the Cavs should have been aware of that and fouled anybody on the catch of the ball.
Washington becomes the first team ever to lose 3 straight playoff games by exactly 1 point. Sucks to be them.
Regarding other young 'legends': Larry Bird was 23 before he ever appeared in an NBA playoff game, so he's not a good comparison.
A better choice would have been Magic Johnson, who scored 42 points, and had 15 rebounds, 7 assists and 3 steals in the last game of the 1980 NBA finals (a game that Kareem missed). Magic was named Finals MVP at the age of 20. Now that's a young 'legend'.
As far as LeBron's eventual stature in the game, and the Scottie Pippen comment. Scottie obviously understands MJ's performances and accomplishments better than any of us do, but there was something else in his statement that is worth mentioning.
In the pre-game show, where Scottie made the statement that he thought LeBron would surpass Jordan, he alluded to the fact that he based it largely on Hubie Brown's opinion of LeBron. He said something like "If that's what Hubie thinks, that's good enough for me." The same Hubie Brown, who in the mid-80's when asked if a young Michael Jordan could become the best outside player he's ever seen play the game said: "Well, c'mon, I coached Doctor J." Hubie was chuckling as he said it, clearly thinking it was hyperbole, but it ended up being prescient. Pippen likely isn't aware of this quote, he was probably somewhere in Arkansas at the time.
Hubie's a solid analyst, but to regard his opinion as a sole reference for gauging a young star's final place in the NBA pantheon is misguided.
LeBron has all of the skills needed to be able to match MJ's career. But until he wins at least 3 championships (MJ had 6, winning the Finals MVP each time), the comparisons are really just another example of the media members trying to anoint someone as the greatest well before it's a reasonable statement.
But how can you not be within 10 feet of Gilbert Arenas with a 3-point lead and 5 seconds to play? He had already swished a pair of 26-footers earlier in the game. The Cavs definitely should have fouled in that situation. I don't foul with a 3-point lead at 10 seconds, but I do at 5, especially when the other team has no timeouts left. That makes a huge difference, and the Cavs should have been aware of that and fouled anybody on the catch of the ball.
Washington becomes the first team ever to lose 3 straight playoff games by exactly 1 point. Sucks to be them.
Regarding other young 'legends': Larry Bird was 23 before he ever appeared in an NBA playoff game, so he's not a good comparison.
A better choice would have been Magic Johnson, who scored 42 points, and had 15 rebounds, 7 assists and 3 steals in the last game of the 1980 NBA finals (a game that Kareem missed). Magic was named Finals MVP at the age of 20. Now that's a young 'legend'.
As far as LeBron's eventual stature in the game, and the Scottie Pippen comment. Scottie obviously understands MJ's performances and accomplishments better than any of us do, but there was something else in his statement that is worth mentioning.
In the pre-game show, where Scottie made the statement that he thought LeBron would surpass Jordan, he alluded to the fact that he based it largely on Hubie Brown's opinion of LeBron. He said something like "If that's what Hubie thinks, that's good enough for me." The same Hubie Brown, who in the mid-80's when asked if a young Michael Jordan could become the best outside player he's ever seen play the game said: "Well, c'mon, I coached Doctor J." Hubie was chuckling as he said it, clearly thinking it was hyperbole, but it ended up being prescient. Pippen likely isn't aware of this quote, he was probably somewhere in Arkansas at the time.
Hubie's a solid analyst, but to regard his opinion as a sole reference for gauging a young star's final place in the NBA pantheon is misguided.
LeBron has all of the skills needed to be able to match MJ's career. But until he wins at least 3 championships (MJ had 6, winning the Finals MVP each time), the comparisons are really just another example of the media members trying to anoint someone as the greatest well before it's a reasonable statement.
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scarletngrey11
All right, all right, all right.
Magics supporting class, even without Kareem was still far superior than Lebrons.
Especially when Z was completely worthless.
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Please see the Magic Johnson part of my previous post. Finals MVP at age 20.
sng77, Magic's opponents (76ers) were also much better than the Wizards, who apparently wave their wands in an attempt to play defense. That part of my response was directed at buckeyeboy, who asked if anybody else as young as LeBron had 'been this good this quickly'.
Well, this is LeBron's third NBA season, at age 21. Magic won the Finals MVP in his rookie year, at age 20. I think that provides an affirmative answer to the question.
Those are facts. I apologize if they get in the way of anyone's desire to believe that Lebron is in uncharted territory. And I have nothing against LeBron, I think he's great. But sometimes a little perspective is in order.
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