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- Thread starter LordJeffBuck
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nomatta
Hall of Fame
honestly, Painter has done an incredible job with Purdue this season. I had pegged them as basically in the same boat as OSU this season--just plus Carsen Edwards--but they are so much better than that. and they are pretty young and not all that talented on paper, either.
the B1G is just going to be totally brutal for the foreseeable future. I wonder if that's going to affect fans' perception of Holtmann if he's not waltzing his way to multiple B1G Championships the way Matta was at his peak (but the conference overall was weaker then).
the B1G is just going to be totally brutal for the foreseeable future. I wonder if that's going to affect fans' perception of Holtmann if he's not waltzing his way to multiple B1G Championships the way Matta was at his peak (but the conference overall was weaker then).
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DZ83CK
Not Banned
Holt just needs this incoming recruiting class to be a hit. Alonzo, DJ and EJ are going to bring a talent infusion that hopefully should make the team a lot different next year. Maybe if those guys dont pan out, then it might make sense to start questioning him. TBH, at their best, Purdue has played at a higher level than any team in the B1G this season.
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Systems_id
Head Coach
It's ridiculous. This is arguably the least talented OSU team in 20 years, probably the deepest B1G conference in five or so years, and people are shocked OSU is struggling. This team resembles Matta's 2007-2008 squads and 2008-2009 squads except with drastically less talent. The former couldn't even get to 20 wins during the regular season despite the conference being much weaker than it currently is. The latter BARELY crossed the 20 mark, and notched two more wins in the B1G tournament. This is with Matta stacking two back-to-back Top 5 classes.Like, what’s a guy to do with that group? Last season gave a lot of false hope in regards to just a snap of a finger and all is well. Luckily, better days are not all that far off.
So let’s fire Holtmann!
Shit how many more wins would this team have with Jamar Butler running the point? Hell a freshman Evan Turner even WITH his turnover problems?
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OSU_Buckguy
Head Coach
this is why any meaningful evaluation of this team should focus on the team's development within the season. comparing this team to previous teams is fruitless.
are we better overall now than we were in november? do we look more cohesive? do the players have a better understanding of how to play with each other? are we making fewer unforced errors? are we hustling more or less? are individual players getting better?
i don't think the answers to those questions are exactly clear cut. no team progresses or regresses evenly. teams are still composed of individual, uneven players. that being stated, i think the general takeaway is that it doesn't look like we're better overall now than we were in november even when accounting for the conference opposition being superior to the non-conference opposition. if nothing else, we look to be moving sideways. that's understandable given how young we are.
now if we instead look at only the players who were here last year, the returns look good -- though not great. kaleb is better. andre is better. young is better. i can't say jallow is any better, though, and jackson looks more or less the same. i look forward to next season since i expect muhammad, washington, ahrens, and ledee to follow the lead of those before them. add some much needed innate talent as well as athleticism and i'll be shocked if we're not a much, much better team.
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Systems_id
Head Coach
Good points but, honestly, I just think people are just expecting WAY too much of this roster. I know I was drinking the Kool-Aid given our fantastic non-conference record and the miracle Holtmann performed last year. It's hard for me to answer whether OSU looks like a better team overall than the beginning of the year because, quite frankly, the majority of the conference has either much better talent, much more experience, or a combination of both than this Buckeye team. And those teams are getting better so, even if this OSU team is a better team than they were in November, so are the other teams. Logically that means OSU is still going to get beat more than they win. If Ohio State didn't have the glaring roster deficiencies that they do, then I'd be a little more worried about Holtmann's coaching than I am now. Who exactly would trade rosters with OSU as it stands now? Rutgers? Maybe Northwestern?
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nomatta
Hall of Fame
expectations are already out of whack for next season just because we're bringing in a few T50 recruits. I think we will do well enough in the non-con but I think the B1G is going to be brutal again, possibly even more brutal. we will see who leaves early, I guess, but I think all of Purdue, MD, MSU, scUM, Wiscy, and Iowa are set up for success again, Rutgers returns nearly everything and are right on our heels in the conference standings right now, PSU could be really good if Stevens and Watkins are back, Illinois is going to be much better just bringing everything back and adding Cockburn, Archie might be finding his groove and IU will have loads of talent next season even without Langford and Morgan, Lil Dicky might even find success with Carr, Kalscheur, Coffey, Curry, Oturu.
basically Northwestern and Nebraska are the only two teams I can look at and think, "they'll probably suck next season."
basically Northwestern and Nebraska are the only two teams I can look at and think, "they'll probably suck next season."
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Hstead
Legend
The above analysis is very good and I would add this team lacks leadership. I know they are young. I posted this before, but it is a real deal that the basketball team has a reputation on campus of partying really hard. Evidently they spend way too much time on High Street and not much in the gym on their own. Compare that to the legend stories of Even Turner shooting every day for hours on end.
Wesson's suspension at this point in the season is glaring I think. Hopefully we find some leadership and guys that want to win.
Wesson's suspension at this point in the season is glaring I think. Hopefully we find some leadership and guys that want to win.
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OhioState001
Tressel Loyalist
Based on what I've seen on social media I would agree with this. Especially from our so called senior "leader".
I've realized this team does not have the mentality to be great. From guys showing up late at the beginning of the year and getting suspended, to dumb fouls during the game, to Kaleb's new suspension. To posting social media pictures partying after a huge loss. We just need new players
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LitlBuck
Kevin Warren is an ass
If that is true, Holtmann needs to sit these guys down and have a very serious talk with them. That is extremely disappointing if true.
I can remember D'Angelo Russell saying that Kam Williams and him were the only 2 guys that spent quite a lot of extra time in the gym and I found that to be very disappointing.
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nomatta
Hall of Fame
Thad had a very strong culture (in terms of the guys really prioritizing basketball and academics, mostly staying out of trouble, etc.) in his program up until Craft left. It definitely started to slip after that (probably another by-product of Thad's health limiting his ability to be as hands-on with all aspects of his team) and then was pretty much in the toilet by the time that last season rolled around.
We might be seeing some after-effects of the end of Thad's time but I also think Holtmann has an adjustment to make. I was hopeful about him bringing some of that "Butler Way" back immediately and he did and I think Funderburk getting kicked off the team plus the suspensions show that he takes this stuff seriously, at the same time that I think we've got too many guys on our team right now that know they aren't going to be making money anywhere playing basketball so they're kind of just enjoying their remaining time at a big party school like OSU. Let's be real, OSU as an environment is a completely different beast from Butler, and Holtmann seems like a pretty easy-going guy but he might have to be more involved with his guys' lives off the court if he really wants to see the kind of level of investment that is needed for this program to produce a consistent winning culture. I don't really love the example our older players are setting for our freshmen right now.
It will certainly help to bring in fiery leaders like Carton and Liddell who love basketball and leave it all out there on the court. They do have great chances of profitable basketball careers so I think the incentive will be there with them, even though I'm sure they too will have their fun at times. Gaffney, well... no comment on how he might impact our culture, though he certainly has the raw potential to be an NBA player if he puts the work in and keeps his eye on the prize. And I dunno about Walker, either.
We might be seeing some after-effects of the end of Thad's time but I also think Holtmann has an adjustment to make. I was hopeful about him bringing some of that "Butler Way" back immediately and he did and I think Funderburk getting kicked off the team plus the suspensions show that he takes this stuff seriously, at the same time that I think we've got too many guys on our team right now that know they aren't going to be making money anywhere playing basketball so they're kind of just enjoying their remaining time at a big party school like OSU. Let's be real, OSU as an environment is a completely different beast from Butler, and Holtmann seems like a pretty easy-going guy but he might have to be more involved with his guys' lives off the court if he really wants to see the kind of level of investment that is needed for this program to produce a consistent winning culture. I don't really love the example our older players are setting for our freshmen right now.
It will certainly help to bring in fiery leaders like Carton and Liddell who love basketball and leave it all out there on the court. They do have great chances of profitable basketball careers so I think the incentive will be there with them, even though I'm sure they too will have their fun at times. Gaffney, well... no comment on how he might impact our culture, though he certainly has the raw potential to be an NBA player if he puts the work in and keeps his eye on the prize. And I dunno about Walker, either.
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QualityLoss
Senior
The difference with Purdue's talent is that they put all their skill points into shooting which as we know is a premium skill. Being able to spread the floor gives coaches all sorts of opportunities that would not be there otherwise. This roster has so many deficiencies that we will not able to fill gaps for another two years unless there is development on the roster.
We need athleticism, length, shooting, and players with the ability to penetrate. Hopefully this class will cover a few of those attributes.
I am satisfied with the success (and failure) of this season given the circumstances and extremely happy with the direction of the team for the future.
-A Holtmann stan
We need athleticism, length, shooting, and players with the ability to penetrate. Hopefully this class will cover a few of those attributes.
I am satisfied with the success (and failure) of this season given the circumstances and extremely happy with the direction of the team for the future.
-A Holtmann stan
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OhioState001
Tressel Loyalist
I agree with this 1000%. Sully, Turner, Diebler, Lighty, Buford, Craft, Lauderdale, Thomas etc.. were the gold standard for Ohio State basketball. Great guys who did everything right on and off the court. I've been longing for those days to come back.
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