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Cleveland Browns (2012 season)

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exhawg;2266945; said:
I wasn't a fan of drafting Weeden, but I do think he is an upgrade over McCoy. That might not be obvious this season, but I think he'll separate himself next year after he has an offseason to process everything that has been thrown at him this year. I like Colt, but he looks like a lifetime backup to me, which is why I wanted the Browns to hang onto him unless someone offers a nice trade for him.

Weeden's arm forces defenses to cover more of the field. I know Colt didn't have the weapons on the outside that Weeden does, but most of the completions in his first season went to TE's and RB's so defenses only had to cover around 20 yards of the field. Weeden does have Richardson, but Colt had Beast-Mode Hillis for his first season, which I would argue equals Rookie Richardson.

For the first time since the new team the Browns look to be a good destination for the new head coach. The defense is already good and a couple pieces away from being great. Weeden, Richardson, Gordon, Little, and Schwartz should all improve with the offseason. They just need to find the right coach who can work with what they have like Harbaugh did in San Fran. If so they could challenge for the division next year. Stick with Weeden and keep any eye out for the next Kaepernick or Foles over the next few drafts to develop as the long term answer at QB.
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I'm not even saying I disagree with you, although I hope they do find the follow-on QB for development sooner rather than later. But when you compare Weeden's rookie stats to McCoy's, I'd have to give McCoy an edge.

If Weeden can't go this week, let's hope McCoy lights up a bad Raiders defense so we can get the most value for him now.
 
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Mike80;2266951; said:
I'm not even saying I disagree with you, although I hope they do find the follow-on QB for development sooner rather than later. But when you compare Weeden's rookie stats to McCoy's, I'd have to give McCoy an edge.

If Weeden can't go this week, let's hope McCoy lights up a bad Raiders defense so we can get the most value for him now.
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there is a vast difference between what colt mccoy was asked to do in his 21 starts, and what has been asked of weeden. there's also a difference between colt mccoy amassing stats in garbage time and what weeden has done.

weeden's stats are quite similar to andrew luck's from this year as well. would you want colt mccoy over him as well?
 
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tsteele316;2266968; said:
there is a vast difference between what colt mccoy was asked to do in his 21 starts, and what has been asked of weeden. there's also a difference between colt mccoy amassing stats in garbage time and what weeden has done.

weeden's stats are quite similar to andrew luck's from this year as well. would you want colt mccoy over him as well?
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Except where Luck has 800 more yards of passing and a winning record. Luck also doesn't have 4 INT games either to his credit....

I realize you hate McCoy with every fiber of your being, but McCoy wasn't and still isn't the issue or answer as much as Weeden isn't the answer or the problem.

And since when did McCoy have 21 starts in his rookie season!?!?!?!? And I agree the offense was vastly different, yet McCoy would have more yards that Weeden does with the same amount of passing attempts.
 
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Being the oldest Browns fan (anybody else see Marion Motley play in person), I thought that I should give my two cents worth regarding Weeden and McCoy.

I guess the biggest problem that I have is that I not think that McCoy was given a fair chance. He certainly did not have the WR's, Richardson, and OL that Weeden enjoys. I also think that he can make any throw that Weeden has made this season. Some of you have mentioned that he does not have a very strong arm. Well, his arm looked pretty strong when he was playing QB for Texas.

In addition, this team wasn't going any place this season and Big Mike should have known that. Wasting a #1 draft choice on a QB was a big mistake when we needed help at the linebacking and defensive back position. Even we knew that was a problem coming into this season.

I don't understand how the 49ers can find two quality QB's and we cannot even find one which leads me to another topic. If Banner decides it is time for Heckert to hit the trail or if Tom decides he does not want to work for the new regime, the Browns should take a strong look at a guy if the 49ers front office who has past ties with the Eagles. The 49ers certainly have come a long way in a short time. I would also take a strong look at Russ Grimm as HC if Shurmur is not retained. I thought that he should have been given a stronger look a few years ago.
 
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LitlBuck;2267059; said:
Being the oldest Browns fan (anybody else see Marion Motley play in person), I thought that I should give my two cents worth regarding Weeden and McCoy.

I guess the biggest problem that I have is that I not think that McCoy was given a fair chance. He certainly did not have the WR's, Richardson, and OL that Weeden enjoys. I also think that he can make any throw that Weeden has made this season. Some of you have mentioned that he does not have a very strong arm. Well, his arm looked pretty strong when he was playing QB for Texas.

In addition, this team wasn't going any place this season and Big Mike should have known that. Wasting a #1 draft choice on a QB was a big mistake when we needed help at the linebacking and defensive back position. Even we knew that was a problem coming into this season.

I don't understand how the 49ers can find two quality QB's and we cannot even find one which leads me to another topic. If Banner decides it is time for Heckert to hit the trail or if Tom decides he does not want to work for the new regime, the Browns should take a strong look at a guy if the 49ers front office who has past ties with the Eagles. The 49ers certainly have come a long way in a short time. I would also take a strong look at Russ Grimm as HC if Shurmur is not retained. I thought that he should have been given a stronger look a few years ago.
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And this!! By the way, you are old!! :biggrin:
 
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Mike80;2267025; said:
Except where Luck has 800 more yards of passing and a winning record. Luck also doesn't have 4 INT games either to his credit....

I realize you hate McCoy with every fiber of your being, but McCoy wasn't and still isn't the issue or answer as much as Weeden isn't the answer or the problem.

And since when did McCoy have 21 starts in his rookie season!?!?!?!? And I agree the offense was vastly different, yet McCoy would have more yards that Weeden does with the same amount of passing attempts.
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i don't hate mccoy one bit. i, along with just about everyone else, was able to see his shortcomings relatively quickly, and his inability to make nfl throws. mccoy was an issue for the offense. the problem is that this won't be fully realized until cleveland gets a coach with an offensive philosophy that isn't centered around 3 yard outs. but, it really can't be argued that weeden has made many throws that mccoy could never dream of making.
 
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LitlBuck;2267059; said:
Being the oldest Browns fan (anybody else see Marion Motley play in person), I thought that I should give my two cents worth regarding Weeden and McCoy.

I guess the biggest problem that I have is that I not think that McCoy was given a fair chance. He certainly did not have the WR's, Richardson, and OL that Weeden enjoys. I also think that he can make any throw that Weeden has made this season. Some of you have mentioned that he does not have a very strong arm. Well, his arm looked pretty strong when he was playing QB for Texas.

In addition, this team wasn't going any place this season and Big Mike should have known that. Wasting a #1 draft choice on a QB was a big mistake when we needed help at the linebacking and defensive back position. Even we knew that was a problem coming into this season.

I don't understand how the 49ers can find two quality QB's and we cannot even find one which leads me to another topic. If Banner decides it is time for Heckert to hit the trail or if Tom decides he does not want to work for the new regime, the Browns should take a strong look at a guy if the 49ers front office who has past ties with the Eagles. The 49ers certainly have come a long way in a short time. I would also take a strong look at Russ Grimm as HC if Shurmur is not retained. I thought that he should have been given a stronger look a few years ago.
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Nothing against Colt, but show me a video of him doing this for the Browns:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-14SQSkRvkE"]Brandon weeden 62 yard td pass to josh Gordon - YouTube[/ame]

It is pretty obvious that Weeden has more pop in his arm.
 
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tsteele316;2267064; said:
i don't hate mccoy one bit. i, along with just about everyone else, was able to see his shortcomings relatively quickly, and his inability to make nfl throws. mccoy was an issue for the offense. the problem is that this won't be fully realized until cleveland gets a coach with an offensive philosophy that isn't centered around 3 yard outs. but, it really can't be argued that weeden has made many throws that mccoy could never dream of making.
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McCoy's arm strength is comparable to Andy Dalton, christian Ponder and a few others. They have support around them and win much like the Browns did in Mccoy's starts in 2010.

Not every QB is going to be Jeff George. Wanting a QB that is all arm and no brains isn't going to help. Weeden isn't that guy either. This fallacy about "nfl throws" is something concocted by ESPiN in the summer of 2011 - way to parrot their lines.

McCoy wasn't the problem with the offense. anyone saying so is ignoring the offensive line issues, the NFL leading number of drops last year (Greg Little) and the overall lack of a running game. If the Browns had what Flacco has in Baltimore or what Rapistberger has had in Shitzburgh and they still weren't winning, that would be one thing. But they don't, McCoy didn't and neither does Weeden, not yet.. Flacco wouldn't win in Cleveland and neither would Rapistburger - not with this personnel and certainly not with the run of coaching the Browns have had since 2005.
 
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Judging people based on stats is a hilarious argument for anyone to stand on. Watch the film, yes Colt had less weapons but also had Madden Cover boy Peyton Hillis. Do you also recall him trying to throw ducks when any throw was longer than 15 yards? Is Colt a tough, hard working, smart football player? Yes, he is that is why you didn't trade him in the offseason for anything less than a third round pick. He is going to a great back-up QB in this league for a long time, I think. But, Brandon Weeden is a better NFL QB and there is no doubt in my mind, and I can literally base my argument on arm strength alone.

Draft the top pass rusher, corner, or wide receiver, and do something this franchise hasn't done sine it came back in 99' and actually add depth this off season. This will be an 8-8 team next year barring them making the worst head coaching hire ever, but I think they have already done that several times since 99' but we will see.
 
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Bucks21;2267073; said:
Judging people based on stats is a hilarious argument for anyone to stand on. Watch the film, yes Colt had less weapons but also had Madden Cover boy Peyton Hillis. Do you also recall him trying to throw ducks when any throw was longer than 15 yards? Is Colt a tough, hard working, smart football player? Yes, he is that is why you didn't trade him in the offseason for anything less than a third round pick. He is going to a great back-up QB in this league for a long time, I think. But, Brandon Weeden is a better NFL QB and there is no doubt in my mind, and I can literally base my argument on arm strength alone.
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Do you realize how many strong-armed QBs have failed entirely in the NFL?

Arm strength isn't the be-all end-all of the argument.

Let's remember I've said McCoy isn't the answer at QB, but he wasn't the issue that should have been addressed either. Weeden isn't the answer either - he's a 29 year old rookie with the same exact learning curve. So by the time he's ready to be a productive NFL QB, his skill set will start to decline. Great pick Holmgren :roll1:

Draft the top pass rusher, corner, or wide receiver, and do something this franchise hasn't done sine it came back in 99' and actually add depth this off season. This will be an 8-8 team next year barring them making the worst head coaching hire ever, but I think they have already done that several times since 99' but we will see.
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When they draft (probably between picks 7 through 10 now with the win and the remaining schedule), they should go for the best player available so long as isn't not a D-Tackle, QB or RB. If it's a receiver, that's fine. I think the defensive backfield should be the real target though. The defense is one stud CB (FA or draft), a good safety and a good linebacker away from being in the top 3 in the conference. sometimes, when your offense isn't ready to go you can win via a good ground game and a defense that is top 5 in the NFL (look at Baltimore and Shitzburgh)....
 
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