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Cleveland Cavs (2016 NBA Champions)

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BuckeyeMafia said:
I'm not ready to make any hyperbolic comments until I see this new team play together, but the Cavs did get better today. They're stronger defensively, faster, and younger. I wish they had been able to lure Avery Bradley away from the Clippers, but frankly, Altman worked a few minor miracles today. He essentially traded for some decent role players at the cost of spare parts, locker room cancer, and a late 1st round pick.

I think this puts us back to where we were before the Kyrie trade: losing to Golden State in five. Again.

To me, Altman will always be the guy who forced a trade of Kyrie Irving for a sad return (especially if that Brooklyn pick winds up at 8 or 9), but at least he was able to swallow his pride today by trading Isaiah. Most people would be unwilling to admit their mistake so soon.



Damn, you took a deep dive down the Peter Dinklage filmography for that one.
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1. Irving forced the trade. The Cavs had zero leverage in dealing him.
2. As it sits today, that nets pick has a great chance of being a top 3 pick.
 
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Great day for Cavs, IT was never going to fit here, he cannot hide here like he did in BOS. He certainly seemed to be an issue in the locker room too, and apparently he thinks more highly of himself than others do.

Getting rid of Shump, IT, and Rose is a blessing in itself even for nothing, let alone actual capable players. Will miss Frye but we didn't use him anyhow, and he is too slow vs GS.

I do not get why people are hating the Kyrie trade so much, what choice did we have? It's not like Cavs wanted to. When the guy is pouting, refusing to talk to the FO for some time, threatening surgery to miss a lot of time, etc etc, what are you supposed to do? Kyrie is a snake that used his tools to force himself out. Perhaps if LeBron wasn't so dang stubborn and continually holds the team hostage, we would have a better chance. What we got for Kyrie was actually great, a lot better than anyone projected. It's unfortunate it wasn't what we expected but we did what we could to try and salvage to be competitive. In the end, it might have done that afterall in a way we didn't anticipate after today.

Nets are a game away from tied for worst in the league, so that pick could stll be awesome.


Great day for us, the only thing I hated was giving LAL teh 1st, I do not think that was needed at all, I doubt LAL really had to have that to do the deal, we took on a guy that they wanted to give up desperately.

Sad to lose Wade but I get it.
 
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tsteele316 said:
1. Irving forced the trade. The Cavs had zero leverage in dealing him.
2. As it sits today, that nets pick has a great chance of being a top 3 pick.
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1. This has been argued 100 times over here, but no, they certainly could've held onto him. David Griffin would've surveyed the market, decided not to force a trade for one of the 10 best players in the world, and let Irving know as much. He would've sat Irving and LeBron down in a room and helped them to work out their differences. Irving was mad that the Cavs tried to trade him more than anything. He'd get over that. Irving was under contract for two more years. Sitting out/playing poorly would've hurt his reputation and life goals a lot more than it would've hurt the Cavs.

2. As of now, that pick has the 7th best odds in the lottery. It's true that the bottom teams in the league are all clumped together right now, but Brooklyn has no incentive to tank while the others do. The Bulls went on an odd win streak earlier this year, they're back to where they should've been all along now, so I suspect they'll pass Brooklyn. The pick probably won't be worse than 8th, but I can't see it being any better than that, either. It'd take a small miracle to get the 3rd pick.
 
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BuckeyeMafia said:
1. This has been argued 100 times over here, but no, they certainly could've held onto him. David Griffin would've surveyed the market, decided not to force a trade for one of the 10 best players in the world, and let Irving know as much. He would've sat Irving and LeBron down in a room and helped them to work out their differences. Irving was mad that the Cavs tried to trade him more than anything. He'd get over that. Irving was under contract for two more years. Sitting out/playing poorly would've hurt his reputation and life goals a lot more than it would've hurt the Cavs.

2. As of now, that pick has the 7th best odds in the lottery. It's true that the bottom teams in the league are all clumped together right now, but Brooklyn has no incentive to tank while the others do. The Bulls went on an odd win streak earlier this year, they're back to where they should've been all along now, so I suspect they'll pass Brooklyn. The pick probably won't be worse than 8th, but I can't see it being any better than that, either. It'd take a small miracle to get the 3rd pick.
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1. Yes it's been debated a 100 times, yet for some reason you refuse to see the obvious. Irving wanted traded after winning a title, and had to be talked into staying quiet for another season. There was nothing the Cavs front office, past or present was going to do to change it. You refusing to accept this doesn't change it.

2. Brooklyn is circling the drain and has a west coast swing coming. They are going to rise in lottery odds. It's pretty unavoidable.
 
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Beautiful day. If LBJ goes ( I think he stays) there are young enough players here to build something else with and that Brooklyn pick.

Keep in mind they got to keep Kevin Love. Way too many people just completely ignore him and he's a 25-10 guy all day long. A PG that wants to distribute and lead with the possibility of these other young guys coming in and playing some defense has me excited. I don't care about the guys "who can score". Hell, everyone in the NBA can score. Can you play defense and get your team points on that end? That is the real reason GS is so tough. These teams that shoot the 3's will eventually slump but defense can win any single game. I still think they need one more big piece to be great though
 
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tsteele316 said:
1. Yes it's been debated a 100 times, yet for some reason you refuse to see the obvious. Irving wanted traded after winning a title, and had to be talked into staying quiet for another season. There was nothing the Cavs front office, past or present was going to do to change it. You refusing to accept this doesn't change it.

2. Brooklyn is circling the drain and has a west coast swing coming. They are going to rise in lottery odds. It's pretty unavoidable.
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1. You said nothing to refute my point.

2. I'll take the franchises that have a vested interest in tanking over the one that does not, but we'll see.
 
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Posted this on another forum, but I find it fascinating:

Yesterday marked exactly 600 days since the Cavs beat Golden State in Game 7 of the 2016 NBA Finals. Only four players (James, Love, Smith, Thompson) remain from the fifteen man roster that won it all.

There are 24 players total (Kaun, McRae, Mozgov, Dellavedova, M. Williams, D. Jones, Liggins, Dunleavy, Andersen, Bogut, Sanders, Deron Williams, Derrick Williams, J. Jones, Irving, Jefferson, Felder, Tavares, Frye, Shumpert, Rose, Thomas, Crowder and Wade) who have come and gone from the roster in those 600 days. Just an unbelievable amount of roster turnover in the span of a season-and-a-half.

Here's to a post ASG rebirth for this team that makes watching basketball enjoyable again.
 
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BuckeyeMafia said:
2. I'll take the franchises that have a vested interest in tanking over the one that does not, but we'll see.
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Whether they have a vested interest or not is irrelevant. Their roster is so bad that losing a lot is unavoidable. If it weren't for Spencer fucking Dinwiddie channeling Michael Jordan in late game situations this season, the Nets would actually be multiple games ahead of the other squads at the bottom of the standings right now.
 
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BuckeyeMafia said:
1. You said nothing to refute my point.

2. I'll take the franchises that have a vested interest in tanking over the one that does not, but we'll see.
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1. Your point was that the Cavs should have forced irving to play, when it was fully known he was demanding a trade, and fully knowing that he was deliberately going to sit out, thereby killing any of the minimal trade value he did have. I don't know if you are familiar with the phrase "cutting off your nose to spite your face" but you should be.

2. Ill take bad teams with a rough schedule and a strong downward trend in performance.
 
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Many interesting conversations on the recent moves the Cavs made. Here is my two cents:

1. The Cavs had to do something. The team was playing the worst basketball I have seen since LeBron returned to The Land.

2. The Laker trade: IT did not help this team. He was a defensive liability and a locker room cancer. See ya. Frye while a great locker room presence did not help this team on the floor. For every 3 he made, he gave up double on the defensive side of the ball. Late 1st round picks are a roll of the dice, sometimes they pan out and other times they do not. At the end of the day, this is all the Cavs gave up. A late 1st round pick. Add Clarkson and Nance, they get younger and better on the defensive end where this team was lacking. Say what you will. This trade will make the Cavs better.

3. The 3-way trade. Rose was a non-contributor as was Shumpert. I was surprised by the quality of Crowder's play. I really thought he would play better. I think Hill is an improvement over any guard the Cavs traded. The wild card is Hood. I think playing with LeBron will help his game. While there are question marks about Hood, I think this trade will help as well especially with Hill.

4. Wade. Always loved this guy and his game since his days at Marquette. Class act. The Cavs FO handled this very well and sent him home. Wish he could have helped this team take it to the next level. Guess it wasn't meant to be. I feel this was a mutual parting of the ways that gave the Cavs a chance to add someone else. Gained a protected 2nd round pick from the Heat.

5. People are complaining about the contracts the Cavs took on as if its their money. Folks, the Cavs are making a final run for the Finals and with what they had, they were not getting there. Does this give them a better shot? IMO, yes. It gives them a better shot at making it through the Eastern Conference. Would this team beat GS or Houston? I do not think so.

6. Lastly, I would be very surprised to see LeBron in Cleveland next season. That's the reason the CAVS did not trade the Nets pick. Don't be surprised to see Love traded if LeBron leaves. Rebuild time in The Land.
 
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NorthCoastKid said:
Whether they have a vested interest or not is irrelevant. Their roster is so bad that losing a lot is unavoidable. If it weren't for Spencer fucking Dinwiddie channeling Michael Jordan in late game situations this season, the Nets would actually be multiple games ahead of the other squads at the bottom of the standings right now.
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Okay? If wishes were horses, beggars would ride. Spencer Dinwiddie is still there, and he's still playing well. What changed?

tsteele316 said:
1. Your point was that the Cavs should have forced irving to play, when it was fully known he was demanding a trade, and fully knowing that he was deliberately going to sit out, thereby killing any of the minimal trade value he did have. I don't know if you are familiar with the phrase "cutting off your nose to spite your face" but you should be.

2. Ill take bad teams with a rough schedule and a strong downward trend in performance.
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1. Irving was angry. Given some time to cool off, I imagine he would've felt differently. Do you really think he would've had unnecessary knee surgery and skipped a year of his prime? Call his bluff. The guy loves the game too much for that.

2. The Nets are trending down, but so is everyone else around them. Dallas, Memphis, Chicago, etc. have no reason to continue to win games. I had also forgotten about the Knicks, who just lost the only player keeping them afloat for the season. There's a chance that this pick is #1, but let's not pretend that there isn't an equal (or greater) chance that it's 7, 8, or 9.
 
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