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Cleveland Venezuelans

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bigdog3300 said:
I don't think it's that - it's more that teams knew the Indians weren't going to pick up his option so why trade anything for him when you can take your chances in FA with him? I mean we know there are only a handful of teams who can even pursue Hand so there wasn't like there was a line of legit competition behind him, he will likely get a one year around or more than what he was going to get anyways is my guess.
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Hand was placed on waivers; any team could have claimed him without giving anything to the Indians. The claiming team would then have been responsible for Hand’s contract and would either have to pay him $10M for 2021 or buy him out by yesterday for $1M.

So no other team believed that Hand will be worth $10M to them for next season. It seems very unlikely Hand will get any offer close to $10M and every other free agent should be prepared to be disappointed. Claims of owner salary collusion starting in 5...4....3.......
 
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bigdog3300 said:
I don't think it's that - it's more that teams knew the Indians weren't going to pick up his option so why trade anything for him when you can take your chances in FA with him? I mean we know there are only a handful of teams who can even pursue Hand so there wasn't like there was a line of legit competition behind him, he will likely get a one year around or more than what he was going to get anyways is my guess.

All I know is, I have for some reason supported the Dolan's, but the time has come. If you're too cheap to be an owner, sell the team, make your hundreds and hundreds of millions, and allow a waiting group of billionaires to come in and try their luck. Let someone buy the team and allow them to be the one that changes their name, a great dangling carrot for marketing. Will Cuban go after them, will Gilbert, there would be no shortage of names even in this economy.
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Manfred is saying that teams have lost between 2.8 and 3 billion dollars and have taken out 8 billion in loans so far, with no end in sight to the attendance issue... This isn't an Indians/Dolan problem.
 
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Zippercat said:
Hand was placed on waivers; any team could have claimed him without giving anything to the Indians. The claiming team would then have been responsible for Hand’s contract and would either have to pay him $10M for 2021 or buy him out by yesterday for $1M.

So no other team believed that Hand will be worth $10M to them for next season. It seems very unlikely Hand will get any offer close to $10M and every other free agent should be prepared to be disappointed. Claims of owner salary collusion starting in 5...4....3.......
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They can claim all they want. They all already took a pay cut last year, I think they understand the reality.

Are there teams looking to add payroll? Mets? I mean I don't doubt some of the top free agents will get nice deals, but just poking around yesterday, Cubs,. Brewers, Cardinals were all looking to drop payroll... I wasn't really looking for that info, but my guess is more than half the teams are in that boat.

Personally, if I'm the agent of an over 30 coming off a so-so or worse season guy, my advice is grab whatever one year contract someone waives in your face and do it sooner rather than later.
 
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AKAK said:
They can claim all they want. They all already took a pay cut last year, I think they understand the reality.

Are there teams looking to add payroll? Mets? I mean I don't doubt some of the top free agents will get nice deals, but just poking around yesterday, Cubs,. Brewers, Cardinals were all looking to drop payroll... I wasn't really looking for that info, but my guess is more than half the teams are in that boat.

Personally, if I'm the agent of an over 30 coming off a so-so or worse season guy, my advice is grab whatever one year contract someone waives in your face and do it sooner rather than later.
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Tony Clark claimed collusion before COVID. He won’t stop now.
 
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Zippercat said:
Hand was placed on waivers; any team could have claimed him without giving anything to the Indians. The claiming team would then have been responsible for Hand’s contract and would either have to pay him $10M for 2021 or buy him out by yesterday for $1M.

So no other team believed that Hand will be worth $10M to them for next season. It seems very unlikely Hand will get any offer close to $10M and every other free agent should be prepared to be disappointed. Claims of owner salary collusion starting in 5...4....3.......
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He was just placed on waivers - I'm talking about trading him before he hit waivers which it appears they tried to. I'm saying why would teams trade anything when they can claim him on waivers, but you are correct that he would obviously not hit FA in that situation so that was a mistake on my part.

AKAK said:
Manfred is saying that teams have lost between 2.8 and 3 billion dollars and have taken out 8 billion in loans so far, with no end in sight to the attendance issue... This isn't an Indians/Dolan problem.
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And we just roll over and believe Manfred, the same commish that is nearly universally agreed to be the worst in sports?

Between their new media deal recently signed and team values still rising even during this pandemic, I would say they are picking and choosing items to release to the public and what not to. Teams will certainly lose out on revenue from this, clearly, but "losing" and "operating at a loss" are two different items and I don't think their operational losses per team are going to be anywhere near what Manfred wants you to believe.
 
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bigdog3300 said:
He was just placed on waivers - I'm talking about trading him before he hit waivers which it appears they tried to. I'm saying why would teams trade anything when they can claim him on waivers, but you are correct that he would obviously not hit FA in that situation so that was a mistake on my part.



And we just roll over and believe Manfred, the same commish that is nearly universally agreed to be the worst in sports?

Between their new media deal recently signed and team values still rising even during this pandemic, I would say they are picking and choosing items to release to the public and what not to. Teams will certainly lose out on revenue from this, clearly, but "losing" and "operating at a loss" are two different items and I don't think their operational losses per team are going to be anywhere near what Manfred wants you to believe.
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I know that losing local media revenue for 100 games and 2 million tickets not sold, along with not selling concessions, parking etc is bad for small and medium markets.
 
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AKAK said:
I know that losing local media revenue for 100 games and 2 million tickets not sold, along with not selling concessions, parking etc is bad for small and medium markets.
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What local media revenue did they lose? Indians had the best local market ratings in all of baseball.

In 2000, Paul Dolan bought the Indians for $323 million. They are now valued 20 years later at $1.2 Billion.

Their, as mentioned, top local market TV deal ends 2022 and will shortly be drastically bumped up.

They have the additional dangling carrot of allowing a potential buyer to rename and market the team.

Hold my freaking breath at the "they lost money", bullshit, Dolan is going to shove $100 bills up his pee hole for the rest of his life for the fun of it. The owners have angled themselves and forced it down everyone's throats at how much money they lost this year...no crap, congrats - the same f'n owners who have seen revenues keep growing and yet players salaries, the largest expenditure they have, have remained stagnant. Oh no, poooooor owners, poor Paul Dolan, how will they rebound!!!!
 
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AKAK said:
I know that losing local media revenue for 100 games and 2 million tickets not sold, along with not selling concessions, parking etc is bad for small and medium markets.
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That might be too positive. The Indians have only exceeded 1.9M tickets twice since 2008 (2017 and 2018), had dropped to just over 1.7M for 2019, and were expecting to drop again in 2020 before COVID. https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CLE/attend.shtml
 
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bigdog3300 said:
What local media revenue did they lose? Indians had the best local market ratings in all of baseball.

In 2000, Paul Dolan bought the Indians for $323 million. They are now valued 20 years later at $1.2 Billion.

Their, as mentioned, top local market TV deal ends 2022 and will shortly be drastically bumped up.

They have the additional dangling carrot of allowing a potential buyer to rename and market the team.

Hold my freaking breath at the "they lost money", bullshit, Dolan is going to shove $100 bills up his pee hole for the rest of his life for the fun of it. The owners have angled themselves and forced it down everyone's throats at how much money they lost this year...no crap, congrats - the same f'n owners who have seen revenues keep growing and yet players salaries, the largest expenditure they have, have remained stagnant. Oh no, poooooor owners, poor Paul Dolan, how will they rebound!!!!
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He should have invested in the stock market... What's that? 6% per year?

Now, I could be wrong but I doubt STO pays for games they cant broadcast.

https://www.crainscleveland.com/kev...v-deal-sportstime-ohio-ranks-bottom-eight-mlb

Your best local market ratings get them (estimated) 22nd in Revenue in the 19th largest market.
 
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AKAK said:
He should have invested in the stock market... What's that? 6% per year?

Now, I could be wrong but I doubt STO pays for games they cant broadcast.

https://www.crainscleveland.com/kev...v-deal-sportstime-ohio-ranks-bottom-eight-mlb

Your best local market ratings get them (estimated) 22nd in Revenue in the 19th largest market.
Click to expand...

https://www.crainscleveland.com/kev...ad-mlb-and-are-pace-be-clubs-second-best-2007

Top local TV ratings in all of baseball

https://www.crainscleveland.com/kev...second-mlb-average-rating-second-best-last-13

2nd in 2019
 
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