Tim Beck (HC Coastal Carolina)

[Jagdaddy]

Ed and Tim are the underlings in the offensive staff. That's Urban's baby which is why the same flaws persist no matter what the personnel or qb, other than one Barrett game across 3 seasons and one improbable playoff run for an OC that actually earned Meyers trust (after 2.5 years of sputtering offense that drew major ire from OSU fans )

Okay, before we all lose perspective, and acknowledging that we're in an era of offense, let's take a deep breath and look at some basic numbers:

1. 2013 is the highest scoring (per game) OSU offense in history: 45.5 PPG.

2. 2014 is second: 44.8 PPG

3. 2012 is seventh: 37.2 PPG

4. 2015, hot mess though it was, averaged 35.7 PPG (probably around 15th or so all time at Ohio State as #10 is 36.4 PPG)

5. 2016 is averaging 45.3 PPG thus far, which would be second all time, although that is likely to drop some.

Nobody's perfect, but there is little reason to think that Urban will typically have lousy, or mediocre, or even less than well above average to great offenses going forward.

All that said, if effective total program management allows for it, from my armchair I'd like to see Warriner as dedicated OL coach, Studrawa as TE coach or heading elsewhere, Beck gone, and some unknown young QB guru hotshot/Mensa 2.0 as QB coach/OC. I'm torn on Zach Smith, with his recruiting prowess, Diddy's over the top obnoxiousness, and the early NFL success of some of the guys he's worked with weighing in his favor and the inconsistency of the current corps weighing against him.

A bit off topic, I'd also like to see someone brought in to help Coombs with special teams returns and the kick block game: Urban used to go after punts: Let's get back to that. I think that the kick coverage game is fine to excellent as is.

There's always been something about Ohio State that seems to make coaches coach conservatively, especially on offense. I'd hoped that Urban would be immune from the malady, but it seems that he's not. IMO, it's time to stop respecting opponents so much and just go fast, hard, and with a dollop of deception all the time.

 

[Systems_id]

that's probably why herbie said everyone should send their kid to play for him.

That or you've completely forgotten the walrus play calling gif.

The only couple of years Tressel had multiple first rounders on offense were the years of his best offense by far i.e. 2005 and 2006.

 

[NFBuck]

The only couple of years Tressel had multiple first rounders on offense were the years of his best offense by far i.e. 2005 and 2006.

Actually, the 2010 offense was by far his best, and comparable (statistically) to the 2012 and 2015 tOSU offenses.

 

[Jake]

I don't think you even have to wait until Barrett leaves. 2015 was all the proof you needed to know Beck isn't OC/QB coach material. Beck had a first round running back that's on pace to set a rookie record, a first round OT, a QB that broke several B1G records as a freshman, another QB with tools even first round NFL QBs would be jealous of and who lead the team to a miraculous three game stretch, a QB turned WR that's actually doing extremely well in the league, a second round WR that's on pace to set a rookie record, and another WR who, while undrafted, earned himself a spot and is doing pretty well for himself. All those tools yet he still found a way to fuck it all up. Hell even Tressel never fucked up an offense this badly when he had this kind of talent.

It was awful how Beck destroyed Urban Meyer's team, and seemingly there was nothing UFM could do about it. Hell, he couldn't even fire him after the season. It must be frustrating to have no control over your assistant coaches.

Tressel was HC. Beck is not.

 

[BuckeyeNation27]

It was awful how Beck destroyed Urban Meyer's team, and seemingly there was nothing UFM could do about it. Hell, he couldn't even fire him after the season. It must be frustrating to have no control over your assistant coaches.

Tressel was HC. Beck is not.


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Withers wasn't to blame, despite the fact he was moved along and the defense improved by about a billion. That one was on Urban, too. Actually.....Gene hired Urban, so it's Gene's fault. And Gene's parents gave birth to him, so it's their fault.

 

[jwinslow]

The only couple of years Tressel had multiple first rounders on offense were the years of his best offense by far i.e. 2005 and 2006.

So we are just going to gloss over how the 2005 offense played outside of their beating of ND ? especially how they played in the losses, with incredible defensive support from a suffocating defense that largely shutdown the 50 ppg longhorns?

2006 was a rare year for JT and one done in part to hide a very young and suspect defense. I'd submit that it was the outlier just like the postseason run in 2014.

Urban has his flaws and can resemble JT at times with a predictable, risk averse offense. It seems to happen about as often as JT ran an aggressive, formidable offense.

 

[Systems_id]

It was awful how Beck destroyed Urban Meyer's team, and seemingly there was nothing UFM could do about it. Hell, he couldn't even fire him after the season. It must be frustrating to have no control over your assistant coaches.

Tressel was HC. Beck is not.

No HC is going to fire an assistant after one damn season regardless of the circumstances. But I'm not sure how exactly I'm scapegoating him. A borderline unstoppable NC winning offense that returned 80% of the offense consistently struggled to move the ball year except the last two games. The only significant change to that offense was the OC. What conclusion would you come to for the offensive struggles?

 

[jwinslow]

Withers wasn't to blame, despite the fact he was moved along and the defense improved by about a billion. That one was on Urban, too. Actually.....Gene hired Urban, so it's Gene's fault. And Gene's parents gave birth to him, so it's their fault.

1) I frown upon any argument that tries to imply something Is not Gene's fault.

2) it was withers' fault as well as Luke's. It was also Urban's responsibility, so withers and fickell were demoted. The difference fickell still brought a lot to the table, he was just above his pay grade.


Folks disliked the hire because of the Armstrong ugliness. They look at the flaws and continue hating on Beck instead of realizing how closely those tendencies and weaknesses align with Meyer's.


Beck has his flaws but those make him more qualified to make offensive suggestions to Meyer, not less.

 

[Systems_id]

So we are just going to gloss over how the 2005 offense played outside of their beating of ND ? especially how they played in the losses, with incredible defensive support from a suffocating defense that largely shutdown the 50 ppg longhorns?

2006 was a rare year for JT and one done in part to hide a very young and suspect defense. I'd submit that it was the outlier just like the postseason run in 2014.

Urban has his flaws and can resemble JT at times with a predictable, risk averse offense. It seems to happen about as often as JT ran an aggressive, formidable offense.

That 2005 team actually went up against some good defenses (and good overall teams) though. They had the fourth hardest schedule in the country if I remember correctly. 2016 has gone up against one Top 10 defense, and performed fairly admirably given the circumstances. Outside of Wisconsin though, none of the defenses they've faced are even Top 50 level. I know Indiana and Penn State were close though last time I checked.

 

[jwinslow]

No HC is going to fire an assistant after one damn season regardless of the circumstances. But I'm not sure how exactly I'm scapegoating him. A borderline unstoppable NC winning offense that returned 80% of the offense consistently struggled to move the ball year except the last two games. The only significant change to that offense was the OC. What conclusion would you come to for the offensive struggles?

Take Devin Smith and Evan Spencer off that team and they get rolled by Alabama.

Switch QBs every few quarters during the 14 season and the fearless 12 gauge shrinks. There's no need to speak about that hypothetically for JT in 2014, we saw a timid JT too often that year (which is understandable for a freshman, and a backup, and a injury prone guy let alone all 3)

Then there's the effort and hunger. Who besides Elliott played with the same fire and tenacity? There was a reason they called it the grind.

Do these things excuse the offensive struggles? No, but they sure do explain them.

 

[Honor&Glory]

1) I frown upon any argument that tries to imply something Is not Gene's fault.

2) it was withers' fault as well as Luke's. It was also Urban's responsibility, so withers and fickell were demoted. The difference fickell still brought a lot to the table, he was just above his pay grade.


Folks disliked the hire because of the Armstrong ugliness. They look at the flaws and continue hating on Beck instead of realizing how closely those tendencies and weaknesses align with Meyer's.


Beck has his flaws but those make him more qualified to make offensive suggestions to Meyer, not less.

I'm more concerned about the individual coaching up of his position group. The one consistent thing the last season and a half has been the missing deep ball. Neither JT or Cardale struggled with this in 2013 or 2014 to the extent that they have since. I get the WR's share culpability here and Devin Smith's graduation are a part of this equation. But mechanically there has been a change and both hold or held on to the ball way too long when attempting these routes (that UFM has said is a big part of the offense) and usually under throw it as a result. I see regression in JT's passing game. Couple that with the progression of Armstrong since Beck left and it is pretty easy to draw a line to poor coaching of the position group. Just an opinion based on what I see.

 

[Systems_id]

Take Devin Smith and Evan Spencer off that team and they get rolled by Alabama.

Switch QBs every few quarters and the fearless 12 gauge shrinks. There's no need to speak about that hypothetically for JT in 2014, we saw a timid JT too often that year

Then there's the effort and hunger. Who besides Elliott played with the same fire and tenacity? There was a reason they called it the grind.

Do these things excuse the offensive struggles? No, but they sure do explain them.

Then how do you explain vast improvement on defense in 2015 despite arguably losing more key players? They lost Mike Bennet, one of the emotional leaders of the team, Curtis Grant, and our best cover corner at the time in Doran Grant, and still showed significant improvement while finishing 9th overall in Total Defense. The 2016 defense is on pace to be even better despite losing more talent than the offense, including a one in a generation player (maybe not with his brother murdering everything) and 3rd overall pick, the 10th overall pick in Eli Apple, and 1st rounder Darron Lee. Yet, if things hold firm, the 2016 defense will finish Top 5 in the nation. With a first year coordinator to boot.

 

[jwinslow]

I made a post exclusively discussing the offensive disparity and your rebuttal is exclusively referencing the defense

Then how do you explain vast improvement on defense in 2015 despite arguably losing more key players?

They did not show vast improvement over late 2014 OSU. They showed vast improvement over the overall season with lots of new faces learning their way in 2014.

They lost Mike Bennet, one of the emotional leaders of the team, Curtis Grant, and our best cover corner at the time in Doran Grant, and still showed significant improvement while finishing 9th overall in Total Defense. The 2016 defense is on pace to be even better despite losing more talent than the offense, including a one in a generation player (maybe not with his brother murdering everything) and 3rd overall pick, the 10th overall pick in Eli Apple, and 1st rounder Darron Lee. Yet, if things hold firm, the 2016 defense will finish Top 5 in the nation. With a first year coordinator to boot.

Could you actually state your argument here? What is it?

That the defense was good in varying circumstances thus it proves that the offense wasn't sloppy and uninspiring in their effort and execution? I think it proves that you can excel in those situations but hardly disproves the offensive play. The blocking was weak. The effort was weak. The confidence was minimal. The nastiness was missing. They sleep walked through most of the year and it finally caught up with them. Once it did, they finally got ticked off and had something to prove and played like it. That scheme wasn't different against Michigan (which is usually lost in the "IN THE BOOTH!@!!" chatter). They ran almost the exact same stuff but they executed it with the fervor of 2014.

 

[jwinslow]

One thing that needs to be made crystal clear, I am no fan of Tim Beck. I simply want people to realize who is actually behind the problems with this offense. If they fired Tim Beck this offseason, Ed got a HC job, Stud had the OL playing pretty well and JT came back for one more year, it would be pretty shocking to see OSU not have the same struggles next year.

That 2005 team actually went up against some good defenses (and good overall teams) though. They had the fourth hardest schedule in the country if I remember correctly. 2016 has gone up against one Top 10 defense, and performed fairly admirably given the circumstances. Outside of Wisconsin though, none of the defenses they've faced are even Top 50 level. I know Indiana and Penn State were close though last time I checked.

I'm asking you to not lose sight of how Tressel offenses played. They were generally pretty loaded with talent, frequently having 2-3 really good WRs, a good to great tailback, a steady if not strong QB and good talent upfront. Yet they almost always fielded methodical, predictable offenses for the vast majority of the year. Then against Michigan, they would pick their spots to break out new things, and then usually they would feature a much more aggressive offensive attack in the bowl game. Fans desperately wished for Tressel to call plays like that all year.

Urban runs a pretty aggressive offense for most of the year and goes Tresselball a few times a year. Like I said, I think those diversions from the mean are as common as Tressel's diversions from Tresselball.

 

[Jake]

No HC is going to fire an assistant after one damn season regardless of the circumstances. But I'm not sure how exactly I'm scapegoating him. A borderline unstoppable NC winning offense that returned 80% of the offense consistently struggled to move the ball year except the last two games. The only significant change to that offense was the OC. What conclusion would you come to for the offensive struggles?

Who hired Tim Beck? Someone outside the football program or the man in charge of it? He certainly didn't hire himself.

To be clear, I'm not calling for anyone to be fired and definitely not Urban Meyer. What's he lost now, 5 games in 5 seasons? We lost at least 3 games every season I was a student at tOSU. But as any leader will tell you, and I'm sure UFM would tell you, the man in charge bears ultimate responsibility for the results. Not just the good results, but the sub par ones as well.