College Playoff

[ScriptOhio]

Every year at least one CCG winner gets left out of the party and there's no way 2018 Northwestern would have gone on to the big show even if they had won. But to make it to the CCG is all but essential to make it into the CFPs. I think Notre Dame and Alabama are the only exceptions.

Didn't Ohio State do it in the 2016 season? Penn State won the B1G CCG but got shut out of the CFPs since they had 2 losses. Ohio State with just the Penn State loss got in the CFPs as the #3 seed. Needless to say, the Penn State fanbase was not pleased.

 

[Zurp]

Every year at least one CCG winner gets left out of the party and there's no way 2018 Northwestern would have gone on to the big show even if they had won. But to make it to the CCG is all but essential to make it into the CFPs. I think Notre Dame and Alabama are the only exceptions.

For the bolded part, I'm guessing you're referring to "even if they had won" = beat Ohio State in the CCG. I agree that it's very unlikely that they go on to win anything in any playoff system that year. I just hate that the door is open to these possibilities. And why should "Team X" get almost a bye if Northwestern had made it to the playoffs? Maybe it isn't a "bye" if they beat Ohio State and all those teams in the West Division, but they're a weak playoff team.

I'm okay with requiring a team to win its conference to be eligible to be in a 4-team playoff system. But I don't like the idea of all winners of conference games being in a playoff. But whatever.

I like the idea of forcing Notre Dame to do something, too, or they can fall into the pool of mid-majors.

 

[Zurp]

Needless to say, the Penn State fanbase was not pleased.

You use the past tense as though they've gotten over it. Either that's a joke or a mistake, or you don't check out their websites.
They're as over 2016 as much as *ichigan is over the ball placement on 4th down in overtime.
Or the 2014 game when the replay cameras were broken.
Or ESPN's decision to throw Paterno under the bus when they manufactured a child abuse scandal.
Or all the times Ohio State decided that *ichigan was their rival, instead of Penn State.
Or all the times Penn State lost because the referees beat them.
Or all the voters who were paid by the Big Ten and still didn't elect Penn State national champions in 1994. Or 2005.
Someone should make a list.

 

[buchtelgrad04]

For the bolded part, I'm guessing you're referring to "even if they had won" = beat Ohio State in the CCG. I agree that it's very unlikely that they go on to win anything in any playoff system that year. I just hate that the door is open to these possibilities. And why should "Team X" get almost a bye if Northwestern had made it to the playoffs? Maybe it isn't a "bye" if they beat Ohio State and all those teams in the West Division, but they're a weak playoff team.

I'm okay with requiring a team to win its conference to be eligible to be in a 4-team playoff system. But I don't like the idea of all winners of conference games being in a playoff. But whatever.

I like the idea of forcing Notre Dame to do something, too, or they can fall into the pool of mid-majors.

You don’t like that “team X” gets an almost bye in the playoffs if they had to play NW, but you don’t mind them getting an actual bye during conference championship week?

I’d rather reward the team that won their last game.

 

[RhodeIslandBuck]

I can think of a good reason: Northwestern in 2018. Sure, they lost in the CCG, so no harm, no foul. But they lost to Akron and to Hamburger University and to Evanston Elementary School for the Blind. They also lost to Sparty's little brother. But they won their division. I think going 8-4 is enough to keep a team out of any playoffs. If they had found a way to beat Ohio State in the championship game, it's bad enough that they would go to the Rose Bowl (if the Rose Bowl wasn't a playoff game that year - I forget if it was), but to go to the playoffs cheapens the playoffs.

Also, and along the same lines, why would a team even need to try very hard to win their OOC games? All you need to do is win your conference games, and you're in the playoffs.

I agree that it's hard to lose your CCG and still make it into the playoffs. The SEC can do that because they're THAT good. But just saying that if you win, you're in the playoffs, I don't like it. Mathematically, a team could lose 3 OOC games, then go 5-4 in conference play and tie for the division championship. I suppose they could even go 3-6 and tie for division championship (all teams in a division win at home against other division opponents, and all teams lose their games against the opposite division). All teams would be 3-6 in the conference, and you have to pick a winner. So, a 3-9 team could be in the CCG. Then they magically win their CCG. I know all of that is extremely unlikely, but I don't like the fact that we have a path available for a 4-9 team to be in the playoff.

It may not be a popular idea, but getting rid of divisions reduces the risk of a team like 2018 Northwestern getting in.

Obviously, it opens the door for back to back Michigan weeks but I'd welcome the idea of taking those fucks to the back of the woodshed twice in one season.

 

[Zurp]

You don’t like that “team X” gets an almost bye in the playoffs if they had to play NW, but you don’t mind them getting an actual bye during conference championship week?

I’d rather reward the team that won their last game.

I thought I said I was okay with forcing a team to win its conference championship game. But I can't remember what was said, anymore.
But, I guess if the question is in front of me (which it is), I'd rather Ohio State get in the playoffs in 2016 than Penn State in 2016. Maybe that's a little too close to home, being Ohio State and all. I'd rather an 11-1 team get in the playoffs, if those 11 wins were convincing, and the 1 loss was goofy, over an 11-2 team that won its championship game, when its 2 losses were to a .500 team and a blowout to a .750 team, even if it beat the first team. And I know that's still pretty specific. My point is that a conference championship game maybe should be counted as "just another game" when picking playoff teams. If we aren't going to require conference championships (I think I'd prefer that we do require it), then don't put so much importance in it.

It may not be a popular idea, but getting rid of divisions reduces the risk of a team like 2018 Northwestern getting in.

Obviously, it opens the door for back to back Michigan weeks but I'd welcome the idea of taking those fucks to the back of the woodshed twice in one season.

I'm not in favor of it, but you're right. But I hate the idea of rematches, especially ones that are a repeat of the last week of the season. And especially especially when you go into that last game knowing that those two teams are going to have a rematch the following week. Like in 2006 - The Game was amazing. I wonder if it would have been so great if we knew that they'd have a rematch the following week. AND - this part bothers me - the rematch is really the only game that counts. You can win the first game 69-1, and lose the second game 2-0. Guess how important that first game was? Who cares that Alabama beat Georgia this past year? Or that LSU beat Alabama in... was that 2012?

But I'll agree that beating those wanks twice in a season would be awesome. How great would it have been to play them again in 2018? Ha. Most of the time, *ichigan wouldn't qualify for the rematch.

 

[Don Muenz]

Your point about effectively cheapening The Game, is very well put. What if there had been a BCS Championship, reprising The Game? Only the BCS would have meant anything, trashing that classic in Woody’s Cathedral.

 

[cincibuck]

I'm okay with requiring a team to win its conference to be eligible to be in a 4-team playoff system. But I don't like the idea of all winners of conference games being in a playoff. But whatever.

I like the idea of forcing Notre Dame to do something, too, or they can fall into the pool of mid-majors.

But they aren't - First, the winner of the Big Ten East or Big Ten West is only a division champion. The winner of the CCG is the official Big Ten champ.
Second, winning a conference championship game does not guarantee entry into the final four. Penn State, Oregon, Utah, and Oklahoma are examples. What shouldn't happen is that the loser of a division - and therefore not in the CCG - be allowed to take one of the four slots. I believe that was the case with Alabama in one of the last two-team playoffs.

As others have pointed out, even four-team playoffs aren't a guarantee of three good games. Some bad clock management by Urban kept the 2015 Alabama closer than it should have been. The same day, Oregon humiliated ol' crab legs and his FSU buddies. Clemson's blow out of the Buckeyes comes to mind along with the pantsing of Michigan and Notre Dame this year.

As for the Irish, I still recall Lou Holtz bitching about the press prior to the 1996 game. "Whose Ohio State? Did they invent football? What about my team?" That's my beef about Notre Dame, the constant expectation of special treatment; the sense of elitist entitlement.

 

[Zurp]

But they aren't - First, the winner of the Big Ten East or Big Ten West is only a division champion. The winner of the CCG is the official Big Ten champ.
Second, winning a conference championship game does not guarantee entry into the final four. Penn State, Oregon, Utah, and Oklahoma are examples. What shouldn't happen is that the loser of a division - and therefore not in the CCG - be allowed to take one of the four slots. I believe that was the case with Alabama in one of the last two-team playoffs.

I may have made that statement in response to one of your posts, but I think I was going outside the existing conversation. I was responding to a comment that wasn't even made. I know the expectation is to go to an 8-team playoff, with 5 conference champions getting in, then 3 more teams. So... I was basically saying that I don't like going with the 5 conference champions getting in. So, in looking back at the conversation, I was shooting baskets at a hoop that didn't exist at that time.

As others have pointed out, even four-team playoffs aren't a guarantee of three good games. Some bad clock management by Urban kept the 2015 Alabama closer than it should have been. The same day, Oregon humiliated ol' crab legs and his FSU buddies. Clemson's blow out of the Buckeyes comes to mind along with the pantsing of Michigan and Notre Dame this year.

To be fair, Notre Dame didn't get into the playoffs this year - that was 2020. But the rest of your point is valid and I agree. I guess the goal of the playoff committee SHOULD BE to put the X best teams (argue about what X is all we want) in there so that whichever team comes out on top, we can all agree that they're a true champion. And I keep bringing up Northwestern in 2018 and I'll do it again. They didn't deserve a shot at being champions. Florida State DID deserve a shot - they were the only undefeated team in 2014. Michigan State deserved a shot in 2015, Ohio State deserved a shot in 2016, and most of those other teams that got blown out - they all deserved a shot. And if we start giving auto-bids to certain conference winners (still shooting shots at goals that don't exist), we'll start getting teams that don't deserve a shot.

As for the Irish, I still recall Lou Holtz bitching about the press prior to the 1996 game. "Whose Ohio State? Did they invent football? What about my team?" That's my beef about Notre Dame, the constant expectation of special treatment; the sense of elitist entitlement.

Your dislike for Notre Dame is legendary and not unpopular. A lot of people share it for similar reasons. And I don't know that I disagree, but I think that one example sounds more like a coach sticking up for his team. I mean, how did that game turn out? I remember the Buckeyes winning it, and maybe it was closer at the end than it appeared it was going to be. My point is that we can now say to Lou Holtz: "Maybe Ohio State DID invent football. How about you sit down and study what they do so you can get better."

 

[CincyInterloper]

So, if the SEC and B1G both go to 20 teams, do their conference championship games become the semifinals of the playoff, with the SEC and B1G conference champions then playing for the title?

 

[ScriptOhio]

So, if the SEC and B1G both go to 20 teams, do their conference championship games become the semifinals of the playoff, with the SEC and B1G conference champions then playing for the title?

Probably not, the more playoff games on TV the more money they take in. Besides you know that teams in the other conferences will sue for an opportunity for a spot in the playoffs. Once you stated to have 4 teams in the CFPs (in addition to the conference championship games) it will never go back to 2. More than likely it will go to 8 with multiple B1G and SEC teams getting in.

 

[BB73]

So, if the SEC and B1G both go to 20 teams, do their conference championship games become the semifinals of the playoff, with the SEC and B1G conference champions then playing for the title?

There are currently about 65 teams that have a chance (most of those not very realistic), so I think it’ll be tough to get that number down to 40, or even to 48.

I’m all for getting to 4 conferences and having those 4 champions go to the semi-finals. No committee to decide who’s in. But whether or not 2 other conferences from the ACC/Big 12/PAC remain viable is still questionable.

And that’s actually at least an 8-team playoff, because every conference will have a CCG, if not more from a pod system.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

B1G is looking pretty genius for blowing up the playoff expansion about right now. As was noted at the time, that model was crafted with the literal expectation that it would prevent Notre Dame from ever having to join a conference. Funny how we nuked that, then turned around and added ND's most important rival to the conference, and right now they're laying off the choir boys and sitting in a room contemplating doing that thing they told themselves they would never do. I think some reevaluations of Warren are in order from some quarters.

 

[sparcboxbuck]

B1G is looking pretty genius for blowing up the playoff expansion about right now. As was noted at the time, that model was crafted with the literal expectation that it would prevent Notre Dame from ever having to join a conference. Funny how we nuked that, then turned around and added ND's most important rival to the conference, and right now they're laying off the choir boys and sitting in a room contemplating doing that thing they told themselves they would never do. I think some reevaluations of Warren are in order from some quarters.

The LA schools approached the B16 as a package. If you’d like me to give Warren credit for picking up the phone… sure. That’s about all the further I’m willing to go at this point.

 

[ScriptOhio]

I like the Buckeye's odds.....