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Do you think Ford survives this restructuring?

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martinss01;752597; said:
ford will survive. chevy will survive. dodge will survive. our tax dollars will see to it.
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I dunno. Survive as what? If ever there was a case of symbiotic self destruction, the Big 3 and the UAW would certainly rank as a prime example.

Which leads me to wonder about the following: Henry Ford had the wisdom to pay top dollar to his workers and to make his product affordable to the common man. The result was obvious.

The Ford plant workers now being laid off or bought out are just the tip of a huge iceberg. Frigidaire, Bendix, Delco, Mo Par were divisions that manufactured all the component parts of American cars. Long ago they were either closed or spun off by the Big 3... case in point Adelphi in Dayton... now we're starting to talk about more than hundreds of thousands of jobs.

Those low skill workers are going to do what for work? Flip burgers? Become Walmart greeters? Fine. It's work.

NOW:

Whose going to have the money to buy the product the remaining workers turn out?
 
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cincibuck;752637; said:
I dunno. Survive as what? If ever there was a case of symbiotic self destruction, the Big 3 and the UAW would certainly rank as a prime example.

Which leads me to wonder about the following: Henry Ford had the wisdom to pay top dollar to his workers and to make his product affordable to the common man. The result was obvious.

The Ford plant workers now being laid off or bought out are just the tip of a huge iceberg. Frigidaire, Bendix, Delco, Mo Par were divisions that manufactured all the component parts of American cars. Long ago they were either closed or spun off by the Big 3... case in point Adelphi in Dayton... now we're starting to talk about more than hundreds of thousands of jobs.

Those low skill workers are going to do what for work? Flip burgers? Become Walmart greeters? Fine. It's work.

NOW:

Whose going to have the money to buy the product the remaining workers turn out?
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Frame this post young 'uns - it is the prime puzzle of U.S. Economics 101 for the coming century.
 
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If they would make cars that people want, and not pay their workers exorbanant salaries they wouldn't be in this predicament. I could care less if Ford goes under. Toyotas are fine with me. I don't, however, think Ford will go under. They will figure out how to compete again.
 
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fourteenandoh;753107; said:
If they would make cars that people want, and not pay their workers exorbanant salaries they wouldn't be in this predicament. I could care less if Ford goes under. Toyotas are fine with me. I don't, however, think Ford will go under. They will figure out how to compete again.
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If they wouldn't spend so damn much money on advertising that could help the bottom line as well. There are way too many car/truck/SUV commercials on TV and the main ads are by the Big 3. How many times do we have to see that damned commercial for Edge, a new Ford vehicle?!?
 
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IMO, the American car makers grew rich and fat off of the Be American Buy American mentality. Then throw in the fact they had the government help them big time with tariffs. Their products weren't and still aren't in the quality ballpark of Honda or Toyota and now they're paying for it with lost sales. Their sales numbers are tumbling down while Honda's and Toyota's continue to increase.

Honda and Toyota have a simple game plan, basically produce three models. An entry level model, civic/corrola, a mid range price car, accord/camry and a high end model, acura/lexus. Then they would strive to better their existing models with improvements every couple of years. They've been so successful that they both had to add a new entry level model. And this success isn't even taking into account that their models are usually more expensive than the comparative American models.

the American companies, meanwhile, instead of improving what they've got, turn to the more expensive idea of bringing out multiple new designs every couple of years to BS the public. Every once in a while, they hit a winner, like the tarus, and then instead of trying to improve it, they turn out the same thing with the same problems, year after year, until the public tires of it and they end up discontinuing it. Then they get into the blame game for all their terrible business decisions and wait for the government to come to their rescue.
 
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Ford will be fine. The may lose a ton of market share that could be impossible to regain, but they'll still be a big player. The auto maker in far bigger trouble is Chrysler. They'll survive as well, but what they eventually look like in the end is completely unknown right now. The way that company has been run over the last decade is a prime exmaple of what not to do in manufacturing.
 
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Buckeye Buh Nim;752590; said:
Or are they in too deep.

I say they won't survive and will either be bought(not sure who would buy them) or will just cease to exist.

If they end up under, how far behind is the UAW?
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I would need to know more about how the company as a whole is structured...global markets, trucking, agriculture, etc. There's more to Ford than SUV sales stats. (I do not mean to insult your intelligence by suggesting you don't know this, just pointing out that for me the global, multi-product line is where I'd want to begin the discussion.)
 
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JoJaBuckeye;753291; said:
I would need to know more about how the company as a whole is structured...global markets, trucking, agriculture, etc. There's more to Ford than SUV sales stats. (I do not mean to insult your intelligence by suggesting you don't know this, just pointing out that for me the global, multi-product line is where I'd want to begin the discussion.)
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My post isn't so much about current earnings as it is about their agressive debt restructuring plan putting the company at risk.

They could very well be owned by their banks within two years or just picked apart.
 
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Ford is in major trouble. Quality issues, current cost issues(mainly UAW) and bad car designs over the years has hurt "going forward".

If Ford survives, they won't look like anything they are today. They will be much, much smaller.
 
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One more example of unions manipulating true market wages... If you don't like the pay go to a different company. If nobody takes the job, the company will need to raise prices until they find a "taker."

IMO unions served a purpose many years ago... today they are basically a form of socialism. Over the long-term, things will work themselves out...

I try to stay away from products produced by unions... it's my own personal battle :) ... I guess I'm stubborn in that manner...
 
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buckiprof;753166; said:
If they wouldn't spend so damn much money on advertising that could help the bottom line as well. There are way too many car/truck/SUV commercials on TV and the main ads are by the Big 3. How many times do we have to see that damned commercial for Edge, a new Ford vehicle?!?
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IMO, in order to turn around a struggling company you need to reinvent the brand. this takes lots of advertising. look at mcdonald's for instance. all those commercials may be annoying as hell but they helped reinvent mcd's image. i think this is what ford is trying to do. the only problem is that you need a good product backing you up.

I think the thing that has gotten them in this jam is the unions. Americans were way overpaid and knew they had the union backing them so they got complacent.

As far as the 18B debt package goes, they put up factories and machines as collateral so if they default Ford will be ripped apart and sold off to pay the bond holders. Those would be some great bonds to own right now IMO.
 
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