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Eli and Ben Switch...

Discussion in 'Professional Football' started by iambrutus, Dec 16, 2004.

  1. iambrutus

    iambrutus Screw Blue

    I was listening to some football "guru" last night on my ride home his exact quote was this:

    "If Eli was in Pittsburgh he would be having more success than Ben is having now"

    Ok, now I am a HUGE steelers fan and was thrilled when they drafted Ben, but with that aside, how would Eli be doing better than Ben?

    This guy said that Eli is more physically impressive than Ben. Now I would be willing to concede that Eli probably has more football "knowledge" than Ben, simply because he has played longer and quite frankly because of his family. But to say that Eli is more physically impressive than Ben? Why hasn't Eli been able to scramble away and break tackels? Ben has done that.

    I'm not saying that Ben is the greatest or that Eli is garbage, look Ben has a great Oline and a hell of a running game and Eli has a crappy running game and a horrible oline, but its ridiculous to say that Eli would be doing better in the same situation.
     
  2. BuckBackHome

    BuckBackHome Wolverine is largest member of weasel family

    I heard some talking head earlier in the year say something about part of the reason Ben was having success was they reworked the offensive plans to make them easier and play to his strengths. I think they have been opening the book up the more comfortable he gets. Something else that is helpful is he has a better surrounding cast in Pittsburgh than there is in NY.
     
  3. tibor75

    tibor75 Banned

    In his last game, Big Ben went 9-19 with 2 picks. If Eli, Carson Palmer, or any other young QB had had a game like that, they would have been benched and their team blown out. Big Ben won.
     
  4. Thump

    Thump Hating the environment since 1994

    I think the Steelers would be just as good with Manning as Ben.


    Ben was put behind a good offensive line and has had a coaching staff that is not throwing too much at him as far as complex offensive schemes.

    Also, Ben had no expectations going into this season where as, Eli did.

    Ben's stat lines are nothing to write home about but you have to give him one thing, he's a WINNER!
     
  5. BrutuStrength

    BrutuStrength It's time to bring it! Staff Member

    Ben not only has better mobility, but he also has better pocket awareness. Additionally, he has the uncanny ability to keep looking downfiled for open receivers while scrambling. I do not think that Manning would do as well, he seems to take too much time reading the defenses and doesn't have the awareness to move or get of the ball when he needs to.

    Putting the 2 Int's into perspective, one of them was a hail mary at the end of the 1st half and the second was a pass that was picked because of a good defensive play. Also, he had a number of dropped passes that hit the receivers' hands.

    Big Ben was the guy I wanted Pitt to get all along, and I think his career will as good or better than Rivers or Eli (barring serious injury) to any of them. There is no doubt that he's in a better situation than Eli to start with, but he's also playing very well.
     
  6. Ginn4Heisman

    Ginn4Heisman Newbie

    I totally agree thump.

    it the Steelers Running game and their D that is making Ben look so good.

    and I just want to say I feel bad for Ben. Because if he doesn't lead the steelers to a 12-4 record or better next season it will be a disappointment. Compared to if Eli takes the Giants 7-9 it will be considered a great season.


    Eli can only go UP with is career and Ben can only Stay the same or go down (i mean his numbers can get better but I'm talking about the number of Win vs Losses)
     
  7. IronBuckI

    IronBuckI Calmer than you are.

    OK, so I'm listening to Mike and Mike, and all of the sudden they start talking about how Ben isn't really doing that good. Talking about how he throws less than 25 times a game, and that if the Steelers were ever behind by 10 or so, that they didn't know if he'd be able to bring them back. Then I read this story, and I wonder why everyone has turned from praise to bash on Big Ben. Then during a news break, Dan Davis starts talking about how you know when fame is going to a young athletes head, when he starts to try controlling the media. In a meeting with a fellow top rookie. Ben made the media wait outside, instead of letting them take pictures. Then I understood the sudden turn on Ben. If you don't let the media do whatever they want. Then you aren't as good as your record, and you could put any other guy in your system, and he would do just as well. Fucking media. We love you, until you cross us, then you're overrated.
     
  8. AKAK

    AKAK If you hear the siren its already too late Staff Member Tech Admin

    Its a stupid argument either way.... I don't think its fair to either of them... (Keep in mind that my hatred for the Steelers is only exceeded my my hatred for scUM while you read this post.)

    First... Eli would not be doing "better" that Ben for two reasons.

    1. Ben is udefeated. Would Eli be undefeated in Pittsburgh. Maybe. But he wouldn't be any more undefeated. So... in the ultimate measure... there could be no better than a tie.

    2. Would Eli's stats be better than Ben's if Eli were in Pittsburgh? Probably not a whole lot... this isn't to Diminish Big Ben... but they don't ask him to do 'everything'... and they wouldn't ask Eli to do 'everything' either. They run the ball and play defense so well that the QB doesn't need to do a heck of a lot under normal circumstances... and they also never play from behind. With that kind of group around him... I'd imagine our buddy CK would be reasonably successful in Pittsburgh right no too... though maybe/probably not undefeated...

    Also- keeping all that in mind... I think Roethlisberger can improve, and whether he does or not will end up being contingent on how he responds later in his career when the supporting cast is maybe less stellar. As for Eli... he needs to both do some self evaluation and the Giants need to get better next year.
     
  9. powerlifter

    powerlifter ▪█───────█

    There were a lot better qb's then Craig Krenzel,but rest assured I enjoyed watching him bring a national title home more then I would have if it would have been any other qb with more talent,knowledge or anything.

    Eli will never be Peyton. He didn't impress me in college like Peyton did nor will he ever in the pro's. People can talk all they want about Big Ben,but if you wanna turn that around. Eli would be just another rookie qb if his last name wasn't Manning......Period.....

    In the long run BR can't do much better winning wise but he can improve statistically. IF Eli Manning wins a few games they will prolly have a party in downtown New York.

    As far as Eli improving, yea I'd imagine he can. Everyone's expectations of him are extremely high,but you'll have that. I'm sure he wasn't bitching about that riding the coat tails of his last name through college.
     
  10. speilman said the same thingy over and over yesterday, his reasoning a few things
    #1 defense in the nfl
    #1 running game in the nfl
    and on the two i think it was game winner drives ben supposedly never completed a throw of over 8 yards (aka dink and dunk with huge runs by his amazing wide receivers)
    speils said pitt had the best 3 deep of receivers in the nfl
     
  11. powerlifter

    powerlifter ▪█───────█

    I'd take Harrison,Wayne and Stokley personally.
     
  12. Thump

    Thump Hating the environment since 1994

    As would I powerlifter.
     
  13. in that combo dont forget dallas clark and pollard-well see how good stokley is next year when hes a go to guy someplace else
     
  14. chille37

    chille37 Freshman

    I'm not in any way a Stealers fan, but the I do think that Big Ben is a great QB. I think he does have a very good supporting cast around him, but he is still putting up good numbers. He is 6th in the NFL in QB Rating, and 4th in completion percentage. He is also second in the NFL in yards per attempt behind only Peyton. Not to mention the fact that he is 11 and 0. The stats speak for themselves. He is the most productive rookie QB of all time.
     
  15. OSUsushichic

    OSUsushichic Fired up! Ready to go! Staff Member

    I just read that Manning has posted a quarterback rating of 33.8, almost 15 percent lower than his rating would have been if he'd thrown nothing but incomplete passes. Now that's pretty miserable.
     

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