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Florida State Seminoles (official thread)

billmac91;1423569; said:
this really puts a gap between JoePa and Bobby as far as wins go....if JoePa thinks his lead is afe, he may call it quits after next season.

There's always the possibility of those being reinstated. Oklahoma had 8 wins 'vacated' after the Bomar/Big Red scandal, but later on had those restored to wins via some sort of appeal.

It may be more difficult to get foreits overturned though, as opposed to 'vacated wins'.
 
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Quick Gator version:

The cheating scumbags [BillMac excluded of course :p) skated yet again! They lucked out, as the fact that other sports were involved kept the onus from the football team. The simple story is that FSU apparently negotiated to throw Bobbah and the track team under the bus to get off with nary a scratch football 'ship wise. They lose NCAA Championships in track, and take a few hits in a bunch of sports, rather than one sport. As to wins vacated, the last several years were so bad that they do not care if they are 0-12 or 7-6. It gets Bobbah out of there - which they want - as he is likely to go if he cannot catch Joepa. His "legacy" was a chip to keep from getting hit on football. They lose almost nothing, and get to be back to full speed in a year or two. They just ask some weaker performers to leave so as not to exceed the full scholly number cap, and load up for great seasons in two or three years.

Good for the football team. As it is, they are going to appeal the vacating of wins. Annoying, considering how much they have skated in the past. Their qb with the gambling habit should have been a problem, but they had an "internal investigation", and the guy who did it did not take "notes" of his investigation so he had nothing to turn in the NCAA when they came calling, and he had amnesia about most of the details. Slick.

Maybe it will be a stain on the program, but I doubt it. They are significant penalties, to be sure, not saying otherwise. But from a football program standpoint, they were not hurt at all by this.

They win some BCS games and they are back to being the place to play. Oh well.
 
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Gatorubet;1423608; said:
Quick Gator version:

The cheating scumbags [BillMac excluded of course :p) skated yet again! They lucked out, as the fact that other sports were involved kept the onus from the football team. The simple story is that FSU apparently negotiated to throw Bobbah and the track team under the bus to get off with nary a scratch football 'ship wise. They lose NCAA Championships in track, and take a few hits in a bunch of sports, rather than one sport. As to wins vacated, the last severals years were so bad that they do not care if they are 0-12 or 7-6. It gets Bobbah out of there - which they want - as he is likely to go if he cannot catch Joepa. His "legacy" was a chip to keep from getting hit on football. They lose almost nothing, and get to be back to full speed in a year or two. They just ask some weaker performers to leave so as not to exceed the full scholly number cap, and load up for great seasons in two or three years.

Good for the football team. As it is, they are going to appeal the vacating of wins. Annoying, considering how much they have skated in the past. Their qb with the gambling habit should have been a problem, but they had an "internal investigation", and the guy who did it did not take "notes" of his investigation so he had nothing to turn in the NCAA when they came calling, and he had amnesia about most of the details. Slick.

Maybe it will be a stain on the program, but I doubt it. They are significant penalties, to be sure, not saying otherwise. But from a football program standpoint, they were not hurt at all by this.

They win some BCS games and they are back to being the place to play. Oh well.

if USC doesn't get shit for Reggie Bush playing for hundreds of thousands of dollars, having agents at practice, the Leinart's paying housing for Dwayne Jarrett, Reggie Bush calling Joe McKnight to recruit him, etc., it is obvious the NCAA has zero interest in hurting large money-making programs.

FSU did skate, but then again they got something which is more than USC can say at this point.

Anything less than the death-penalty probably isn't enough for a Croc though :)
 
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billmac91;1423611; said:
if USC doesn't get shit for Reggie Bush playing for hundreds of thousands of dollars, having agents at practice, the Leinart's paying housing for Dwayne Jarrett, Reggie Bush calling Joe McKnight to recruit him, etc., it is obvious the NCAA has zero interest in hurting large money-making programs.

FSU did skate, but then again they got something which is more than USC can say at this point.

Anything less than the death-penalty probably isn't enough for a Croc though :)
True true and true. Especially the last part. :p
 
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Gatorubet;1423608; said:
They win some BCS games and they are back to being the place to play. Oh well.

When is the last time they were the place to play? I can't remember the last time they were a national contender. I'm guessing it has been at least 10 years. I recall them having some pretty good defenses but the offense has always been underwhelming.
 
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itownbuckeye;1423618; said:
When is the last time they were the place to play? I can't remember the last time they were a national contender. I'm guessing it has been at least 10 years. I recall them having some pretty good defenses but the offense has always been underwhelming.
Florida State's overall record from 1987 to 2000 was 152-19-1 (.887 winning percentage), with two national championships and fourteen straight top-five finishes. Maybe the best run ever for a college football program.
 
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LordJeffBuck;1423621; said:
Florida State's overall record from 1987 to 2000 was 152-19-1 (.887 winning percentage), with two national championships and fourteen straight top-five finishes. Maybe the best run ever for a college football program.

They were unbelievable during that period. An FSU loss was an event.
 
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NFBuck;1423649; said:
They were unbelievable during that period. An FSU loss was an event.

Absolutely true. Even better, they had a two game season, UF and Miami and the ACC dwarfs. They had a chance to give significant PT to the non-starters, which made them a very deep and experienced team. The ACC had no conference championship, so if they could avoid a wide right, and beat Spurrier (which Bobby did - he had the head to head), they were BCS or MNC bound.

They ran through the ACC, winning the ACC Conference Championship every year from joining in 92 through 2000. They won the first 29 games and did not lose an ACC game until November of 1995. I think the lack of "testing" during the regular season was a problem for them later as they lost MNCs, to UF, to UT, and to OU in 96, 98, and 2000. (and an undefeated FSU lost to UF in the last regular season game in 97, ruining a MNC shot)

Still, being in the MNC three years running is something to brag about. The rise and expansion of the ACC to include other better teams made the march to the MNC not as easy.
 
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LordJeffBuck;1423621; said:
Florida State's overall record from 1987 to 2000 was 152-19-1 (.887 winning percentage), with two national championships and fourteen straight top-five finishes. Maybe the best run ever for a college football program.
And they hardly ever lost a bowl game.
 
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JCOSU86;1423665; said:
And they hardly ever lost a bowl game.

To be clear, nothing about the post I just made was meant to suggest that they were not damn good. They had huge numbers of NFL top draft players, and brought the pain on defense. If they had ever gone with a more creative offense, they would have been even better. :shudder:
 
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I know phrases like "four-year probation" and "vacated wins" sounds really bad for Florida State, but the truth is that their punishment is a weak response that doesn't fit the crime.

Let's look at what penalties they got from the NCAA:

- Public reprimand and censure. Oh no! Your words sting me like angry bees.

- Four years of probation. This is also meaningless. They simply have to wait two extra years before they can start cheating again.

- Scholarship reductions in 10 sports. This is the only actual sanction. This will hurt the non-football sports more, of course, but the NCAA barely tinkered with the self-imposed sanctions Florida State had already given themselves. The football team recommended a reduction of five scholarships. The NCAA upped it by one. What an iron fist!

- Vacating of victories in which ineligible athletes competed. This sounds very harsh... but is it? First, the NCAA says it's up to FSU to determine which games involved ineligible players and then tell the NCAA later. Second, they will almost certainly appeal this part of the ruling and other schools have won that appeal before.

Third, who gives a crap? The teams that lost those games don't get to claim them as a victory and even if they could, no one would feel good about it. Changing the record book doesn't change the memory of what happened. Michigan "lost" nearly four seasons of wins and two Final Four banners, but that will never stop people from marveling about the Fab Five. It's embarrassing, but that's all. (And the NCAA even waited until FSU was on spring break and National Signing Day was well passed to announce their findings, further lessening the embarrassment.) The worst thing that might happen is that the track team might have to forfeit a National Championship, but no one will ever forget that they really did win it.

- Show-cause orders-ranging from three to five years-on three university employees. Three low-level chumps (academic specialists and a tutor) will take the fall by not being able to work in an athletic department for a few years. No coaches or administrators will be punished.

So what did they do to earn such a "harsh" rebuke? Sixty-one athletes from 10 FSU sports who were taking a history of music classic were given answers to an online test and some had papers written for them. That's not a couple of goofballs helping each other with a project. That's systematic cheating spread across the entire athletic department. They pushed athletes to a ridiculous creampuff class and they still had to cheat in order to pass it.

Yet ... no postseason bans and no coaches will fired or suspended or receive pay cuts. Anyway you look at it, it is a slap on the wrist and yet another reminder that the NCAA is not interested in any serious enforcement of their academic rules. Well, at least not at a big powerful school like Florida State.

Tim Stephens at the Orlando Sentinel explains it best:

Still think it's tough? Just consider that FSU was found guilty of one of the worst academic fraud cases in NCAA history. It involved 61 athletes in 10 sports. It involved, as the NCAA noted and FSU agreed, fraud committed by the employees who were there to preserve the very academic integrity that was defiled. And yet when you look team by team, FSU's scholarship cuts and other sanctions were no worse and were in fact lower than what many teams face for poor performances in the classroom (penalties for a low Academic Progress Rate).

Message: It's worse to recruit players who actually flunk than it is to cheat to help them pass.

In other words, it's a sad joke. Bobby Bowden might lose his shot at the precious wins record, but everyone already knows what he did to get there in the first place.


http://deadspin.com/5166103/florida-...but-not-really
 
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Gatorubet;1424103; said:
I know phrases like "four-year probation" and "vacated wins" sounds really bad for Florida State, but the truth is that their punishment is a weak response that doesn't fit the crime.

Let's look at what penalties they got from the NCAA:

- Public reprimand and censure. Oh no! Your words sting me like angry bees.

- Four years of probation. This is also meaningless. They simply have to wait two extra years before they can start cheating again.

- Scholarship reductions in 10 sports. This is the only actual sanction. This will hurt the non-football sports more, of course, but the NCAA barely tinkered with the self-imposed sanctions Florida State had already given themselves. The football team recommended a reduction of five scholarships. The NCAA upped it by one. What an iron fist!

- Vacating of victories in which ineligible athletes competed. This sounds very harsh... but is it? First, the NCAA says it's up to FSU to determine which games involved ineligible players and then tell the NCAA later. Second, they will almost certainly appeal this part of the ruling and other schools have won that appeal before.

Third, who gives a crap? The teams that lost those games don't get to claim them as a victory and even if they could, no one would feel good about it. Changing the record book doesn't change the memory of what happened. Michigan "lost" nearly four seasons of wins and two Final Four banners, but that will never stop people from marveling about the Fab Five. It's embarrassing, but that's all. (And the NCAA even waited until FSU was on spring break and National Signing Day was well passed to announce their findings, further lessening the embarrassment.) The worst thing that might happen is that the track team might have to forfeit a National Championship, but no one will ever forget that they really did win it.

- Show-cause orders-ranging from three to five years-on three university employees. Three low-level chumps (academic specialists and a tutor) will take the fall by not being able to work in an athletic department for a few years. No coaches or administrators will be punished.

So what did they do to earn such a "harsh" rebuke? Sixty-one athletes from 10 FSU sports who were taking a history of music classic were given answers to an online test and some had papers written for them. That's not a couple of goofballs helping each other with a project. That's systematic cheating spread across the entire athletic department. They pushed athletes to a ridiculous creampuff class and they still had to cheat in order to pass it.

Yet ... no postseason bans and no coaches will fired or suspended or receive pay cuts. Anyway you look at it, it is a slap on the wrist and yet another reminder that the NCAA is not interested in any serious enforcement of their academic rules. Well, at least not at a big powerful school like Florida State.

Tim Stephens at the Orlando Sentinel explains it best:

Still think it's tough? Just consider that FSU was found guilty of one of the worst academic fraud cases in NCAA history. It involved 61 athletes in 10 sports. It involved, as the NCAA noted and FSU agreed, fraud committed by the employees who were there to preserve the very academic integrity that was defiled. And yet when you look team by team, FSU's scholarship cuts and other sanctions were no worse and were in fact lower than what many teams face for poor performances in the classroom (penalties for a low Academic Progress Rate).

Message: It's worse to recruit players who actually flunk than it is to cheat to help them pass.

In other words, it's a sad joke. Bobby Bowden might lose his shot at the precious wins record, but everyone already knows what he did to get there in the first place.


http://deadspin.com/5166103/florida-...but-not-really

All very true, but again, it's silly to think the NCAA is going to damage a money-factory program.

It's much easier to use small, non-profit programs as examples b/c the NCAA doesn't hurt their own pocket in the process.

It's a joke, and sets an awful example. I still see no worse crime committed than Reggie Bush playing for hundreds of thousands of dollars and his step-father on an audio recording, admitting to taking handouts, and yet nothing....

Ir really puts the "cleaner" programs at a huge disadvantage when the NCAA swings a feather pillow at these situations. What is to stop the next program from doing what FSU has done when a precedent has been set on how it will handled......somewhere Nick Saban and Lane Kiffin are toasting their AD's while Phill Fulmer is plotting his comeback.
 
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Fraud fallout: Asterisk may make Bowden's wins chase an ugly race - NCAA Football - CBSSports.com Live Scores, Standings, Stats


Another day at Florida State, another messy NCAA oil spill. They're used to them in Tallahassee.
But FSU going on probation (again) was not close to being the main news Friday when the school
went on probation (again).

Academic fraud. Sixty-one athletes. Crooked academic advisors.
You're surprised? Florida State now is tied for the second-most major infractions cases (seven)
in history. That's one behind Arizona State and Southern Methodist, a school you might be familiar
with for its death penalty history.

But this? This is messin' with Bobby. The difference between Florida State being
Florida State and a glorified University of Phoenix is one charming, 79-year-old
football coach. Like the man he is chasing, Bowden's accomplishments basically
poured the concrete for the university. He is its face, its reputation and its history.
No wonder FSU wants to lawyer up in order to keep that legacy intact.



et-heart-glow2.jpg


Ouch!
 
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