Florida State Seminoles (official thread)

[DaddyBigBucks]

The thing that I find most intriguing about all of this is that there is absolutely ZERO discussion of this in Tallahassee, and precious little coverage in the local media. I'd give you the local take on it, but I'm not going to ask until they are ready to talk about it. Right now, all I can tell you for sure is that they are not ready to talk about it.

 

[Gatorubet]

The thing that I find most intriguing about all of this is that there is absolutely ZERO discussion of this in Tallahassee, and precious little coverage in the local media. I'd give you the local take on it, but I'm not going to ask until they are ready to talk about it. Right now, all I can tell you for sure is that they are not ready to talk about it.

NCAA Hypocrisy and Sports During Wartime | PopPolitics.com

When you look at these penalties, they are remarkably mild. There is
no loss of TV revenue, no loss of post-season competition. The loss
of scholarships is minimal. This is a case that the NCAA termed "egregious"
"extremely serious," and "intentional." The violations were characterized as
"widespread academic fraud perpetuated purposefully" by three AASS staff members.

If an ineligible player is used in an athletic competition, what is the standard penalty?
In all cases I can think of, any win is changed to a loss. The "vacating" of the wins
at FSU affects football, track and other sports. This could impact FSU's national
championships in track in 2006 and 2007. It could also involve as many as 14 wins by the FSU football team.

So what would you expect is the most talked about aspect of this entire affair?
Are people at FSU, in Tallahassee, in Florida, outraged by this massive case of fraud?
Have educational and state political leaders denounced the outrageous behavior
that went on at FSU? The answer of course is a simple, but very loud, "No"!

This supports what you see Daddy. My Nole buddies back in Florida do not even know the gist of the facts that brought about the penalties, believing the FSU "rogue tutor" spin. They don't know that the FSU higher up who could connect the dots refused to testify. They don't know that refusing to testify is in itself a violation. They don't know that an least one tutor identified the higher up as bringing specific players to the tutors to "cheat them" into eligibility.

And most of them do not care, and insist the NCAA is only mad at them and paying them back for not dropping "Seminole" as a mascot.

Vacating wins is not a "penalty." The loss of the "W" should be automatic, and invoked because you competed with ineligible players. A penalty for intentionally cheating to meet eligibility should be more than just the required penalty for using ineligible players, IMHO.

 

[Gatorubet]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/25/sports/ncaafootball/25araton.html?_r=2&ref=sports

Presented with the opportunity to forge a legacy as a teacher with integrity,
Bobby Bowden has chosen to stand for his record as a football coach.

Given a chance to take one not for the team but with the team, Bowden
has opted for a common 21st-century American alibi: I’m in charge, but
don’t hold me accountable for what’s going on.

The specter of losing as many as 14 victories from his grand total of 382
has moved Bowden to accuse the N.C.A.A. of “killing a flea with a hammer.”
If he believes that institutional classroom cheating is an insect on the face
of big-time college football, it is time for Bowden, 79, to flee Florida State.

 

[Gatorubet]

FSU: Where Cheating is No Big Deal!


Orlando Sentinel - Florida State's T.K. Wetherell, Bobby Bowden trivialize academic fraud by

Is it just me or are Florida State's two most visible employees -- President T.K. Wetherell and
football coach Bobby Bowden -- embarrassingly trying to justify or trivialize academic fraud?

Exhibit A: Bowden telling reporters about NCAA sanctions against FSU, "I think they tried
to kill a flea with a hammer."

Really? Seriously?

Can you minimize a wide-spread academic scandal involving 61 athletes in 10 sports any
more than comparing it to an annoying, minuscule insect?

Then there was the troubling quote from Wetherell during his press conference last week
-- a quote that unfortunately got lost amid the controversy of Wetherell using a profanity
to describe Samford University.

During the news conference, Wetherell took the opportunity to ask this question of reporters
concerning FSU athletes cheating on exams in an on-line music course: "How many of you if
given the opportunity would look at the answers?," he asked. "No, I won't even ask you
to answer, you all would probably."

Translation: What's the big deal? It's just a little harmless, everyday cheating, right?

T.K. = Piece of Shit. I'm embarrassed for Bill.

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

Wow


So Bowden just referred to the FSU Athletic Department as a flea. They are in serious danger of becoming just that after he is gone.

Distancing himself from this says loud and clear that the academic scandal was the responsibility of people who will still be there long after he is gone. Parents who care about their sons future will notice that. That's a lot to overcome, and it is not certain that FSU has what it takes to overcome it.

So many people automatically assume that they have natural advantages because of their 14-year-run.

Let's get this out of the way first: that run is perhaps as impressive as any in college football history, albeit against schedules that typically had only two opponents with a pulse. The rest of the ACC was awful for almost all of that run; but yeah, the 'noles were consistently outstanding for 14 straight years. That is no mean feat.

But that is NOT proof that they have natural advantages, long term. Let's take the "advantages" one at a time:

• Location

OK, so they're located in Florida... barely. As Gatorubet could attest, the rest of Florida considers the panhandle to be Southern Georgia/Alabama, and that is exactly what it is, culturally speaking. And there's the rub: Tallahassee is a small, truly Southern town, and most of the residents want it to remain that way. It is culturally out-of-sync with most of the rest of Florida. It is way too rural for a lot of kids. USF (Tampa) has perhaps the best location of all the Florida schools. And they have a bigger, more conveniently located and situated campus.
​

• Recruiting

So if location isn't really working in their favor, what recruiting advantages do they have? When Mickey Andrews (DC) is gone (which you can expect to be coincident with or soon after Bowden's departure), defensive linemen will not automatically think of Tallahassee as a whistle-stop on the way to the league. Can they tout their academics? Please. Jen Sterger? She works for the Jets now (last I heard anyway). Night life? This is Tallahassee, remember?

​

• Facilities

Their facilities are an absolute joke compared to what is quickly becoming the norm. And they do NOT have the alumni/booster base to catch up anytime soon. USF will pass them before they can even enter the race.

​

While I'm not suggesting that FSU has built-in DISadvantages, it should be clear to anyone that they are in serious danger of struggling for a long, long time unless Jimbo proves to be much more than they have any reason to expect.

 

[Gatorubet]

So many people automatically assume that they have natural advantages because of their 14-year-run.

They fielded some amazingly talented teams in the day, but Florida's rightfully imposed sanctions for our transgressions in the late 70s, early 80s led to years of bad recruiting while we waited for the hammer to fall, and then the restrictions that followed. Many of FSU's stars back then would have been Gators had we not cheated, gotten caught, and put on probation with restrictions.

That "leg up" was an advantage exploited by the Noles during the start of that string of top five finishes.

They will never be absolutely lousy because of the in-state talent. The question is: having had a run of several mediocre years, and with the Bowden era fading, will they be able to overcome the vastly improved ACC competition and reach the level of success they had before the program is viewed by today's recruits as just one of the those teams that used to be good back in the day...like Nebraska or Notre Dame?

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

...
They will never be absolutely lousy because of the in-state talent...

While I agree, I don't think there is any guarantee. While the depth of the state's talent is well known, it is not infinite. Everyone, including Ohio State, spends recruiting resources tapping that pool. And with the possible (probable) ascendence of USF, that spreads the talent even thinner.

These exigencies, combined with your point about the ascendence of UF and the fact that so much of that in-state talent will consider Tallahassee too small and too podunk for their liking; FSU may end up getting a much thinner slice of that talent than they used to. Their future is much more in doubt than most people, especially people here, believe.

 

[BB73]

It looks like FSU is down to its last chance in the desperate effort to save Bobbah's wins.

SI.com

FSU response due in two weeks

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) -- The NCAA's Committee on Infractions responded Tuesday to Florida State's appeal of sanctions from an academic cheating scandal, but kept its answer secret and gave the school 15 days to respond.

Florida State is challenging a portion of the sanctions announced in March that would force the school to vacate as many as 14 of Bowden's 382 career wins -- just one fewer than Penn State's Joe Paterno.

The university's general counsel, Betty Steffens, will prepare a rebuttal that will be made public, at least in part, university officials said.

"Our comment will be the rebuttal," associate athletic director Rob Wilson said. "We'll all know a lot more when we send this thing back."

Two dozen football players were among 61 Florida State athletes involved in the cheating, which occurred mainly through online testing in a music history course at Florida State in 2006 and 2007. It included staffers helping students on the test and in one case asking one athlete to take it for another.

The school did not challenge the loss of scholarships in 10 sports and a four-year probation.

Cont'd ...

CBS.Dodd

FSU's appeal of Bowden's victories ongoing

...

Florida State is appealing the loss of wins in several sports -- including up to 14 in football -- the result of NCAA penalties handed down in March.

The NCAA acknowledged Tuesday only that the appeals committee has received its response from the NCAA infractions committee. That starts a clock that now gives Florida State 15 days (until June 17) to file a rebuttal to the response. Then there are 10 days for the NCAA to respond back to FSU.

The school already has requested an in-person hearing with the appeals committee after those two steps are completed. Florida State has said it will make its rebuttal public when it is filed.

It can only be assumed that the infractions committee did not have a favorable response to the appeal.

...

According to the NCAA website, the appeals committee's decision is final after the in-person hearing. That decision is reached by majority vote of the committee members attending the meetings. There are currently five members on the committee.

Also according to the website, the committee will "reverse or modify a ruling (by the infractions committee) only if the individual or institution can show one or more of the following grounds:

1. That the ruling was clearly contrary to the evidence;

2. That the individual's or institution's actions did not constitute an infraction of NCAA rules;

3. There was a procedural error and but for the error, the Committee on Infractions would not have made the finding of violation; or

4. The penalty assessed was excessive such that its imposition constitutes an abuse of discretion."

The appeals committee has been more open to overturning penalties in recent to the consternation of certain infractions committee members.

In 2008, former infractions committee chairman Gene Marsh of Alabama said: "If folks really are interested in righting the wrong of winning games, because you won while you were cheating, vacation (of victories) seems to be a logical thing to do."

Cont'd ...

 

[BB73]

This is a misleading headline. The only problem appears to be that the NCAA can't declare their response to FSU's appeal to be private, so the documents may become public. FSU is due to respond by July 1st.

SI.com

FSU probe may violate Fla. law

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) -- The dispute between the NCAA and Florida State University is drawing scrutiny from elected officials.

The NCAA cannot secretly respond to a Florida State appeal -- which it's attempting to do in violation of the state's open government laws, the attorney general's office said Thursday.

Alexis Lambert, the sunshine and public records lawyer for Attorney
General Bill McCollum, said Florida statutes are clear that a third party -- the NCAA in this case -- that generates a document cannot designate it to be private.

Cont'd ...

 

[Nutriaitch]

It looks like FSU is down to its last chance in the desperate effort to save Bobbah's wins.

so, who won the FSU/Bama game in '07?
Criminoles vacted that one (if it holds up), and Bama vacating all wins from '05, '06, and most of '07.

did that game just never happen?

 

[BB73]

And this may put the embarassment of the FSU President referring to Bobby Bowden's alma mater (Samford Univ.) as a 'dipshit school' behind them.

Miami.Herald

FSU president likely to announce retirement

FSU President T.K. Wetherell is expected to announce he's stepping down after six years.

BY SHANNON COLAVECCHIO

Herald/Times Tallahassee Bureau

TALLAHASSEE -- More than six years after taking the helm of his alma mater, Florida State University president T.K. Wetherell is reportedly ready to step down -- leaving behind a campus whose academic reputation blossomed even as its budget shrank.

Wetherell, 63, declined to confirm his plans Monday. But friends and university officials say he is expected to officially announce at
Wednesday's FSU trustees meeting that he wants to leave the post he took in January 2003.

Wetherell's contract runs through 2011, though it is not clear how long he will stay. Former FSU trustee John Thrasher, a longtime friend, said he expects Wetherell will remain through the end of this year to give a search firm time to find a new president.

Cont'd ...

 

[Flocka]

Prez to retire when successor found

Florida State president T.K. Wetherell handed in his letter of resignation and announced his plans to retire as soon as a successor can be found, the university announced Wednesday.

Wetherell, a former Florida State football player who stayed involved in the program since his tenure as president began in January 2003, cited health concerns and upcoming challenges facing the university as his reasons for leaving.

In a letter to board of trustees chairman Jim Smith, Wetherell said the timing is right to step down to pursue other interests, including teaching and spending more time with his family.

"This decision is based in large part on my belief that the next three years are going to be a highly crucial and challenging time for Florida State University," Wetherell, 63, said in a prepared statement. "My contract ends in the middle of that period, and I do not believe it would be a good idea for the university to change leadership at that point. I believe the university needs and deserves a strong leader who has the energy to be involved in the initial stages of the university's reorganizational process and the ability and desire to make a long-term commitment and comprehensive management decisions to move Florida State ahead in these challenging times.

Florida State president T.K. Wetherell to retire as soon as succcessor named - ESPN

 

[Gatorubet]

Marcus Sims and Sedrick Holloway both quit the team. Bobbah could not talk Marcus out of dadgum quitting.

They were the only two scholarship fullbacks, or so I've heard.

And they are supposedly down to 75 scholarship players with those guys bailing.

Life is good.

 

[BB73]

Get ready to say buh-bye to the record, Bobbah.

SI.com

NCAA to uphold FSU sanctions

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) -- The NCAA infractions committee intends to uphold sanctions against Florida State that would take away wins in 10 sports, including as many as 14 by football coach Bobby Bowden.

After a lawsuit and intervention by Florida's attorney general, the NCAA allowed Florida State to release the committee's June 2 response to FSU's appeal of the NCAA punishment that would strip the school of the victories.

The committee said in its response that the conduct of Florida State staff members involved in the academic cheating scandal was reprehensible and said such harsh penalties are appropriate when the academic mission of the university has been compromised.

Bowden has 382 career wins -- one fewer than Penn State's Joe Paterno, the major college leader.

 

[Bucklion]

Get ready to say buh-bye to the record, Bobbah.

SI.com

Well those wins over Milsaps College and shit shouldn't count towards the DI record anyway, so it all evens out.