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Free speech debate issue

Discussion in 'Open Discussion (Work-safe)' started by wolfamngstsheep, Mar 15, 2004.

  1. Tommorow for class I will be involved in a debate about an issue of free speech. Here's the skinny:

    A man and a woman got divorced and split custody of their daughter. The man practices polygamy as a religion and wants to teach the 10-year-old daughter about polygamy. The mother doens't want the husband to talk to their daughter about polygamy and has issued a court order that forbids the husband to teach the kid about polygamy. This was upheld by the state Superior Court and will be tried by the Supreme Court.

    Here is a quote from the husband, "Religous discussion in the home between parent and child has got to be the most sacred freedom of speech issues ever. There is no way we can allow governement to come into your home and interfere with that religous discussion," Stanely M. Shepp.

    "perhaps one day in this great land discrimination agaisnt plural family life will fade, much as discrimination against other family lifestyles (homosexuals, cohabitation of married people. ect) have faded.

    Discuss.
     
  2. MililaniBuckeye

    MililaniBuckeye The satanic soulless freight train that is Ohio St Staff Member Tech Admin

    You didn't mention which state this is in. If polygamy is against state law, then I can see why the court thinks it's OK to step in and keep the daughter from being taught something illegal (what if the father's religion professed the use of hard core drugs, or pedophelia?).

    As for the statement, "perhaps one day in this great land discrimination agaisnt plural family life will fade, much as discrimination against other family lifestyles (homosexuals, cohabitation of married people. ect) have faded.", homosexuality is not a "family" lifestyle.

    I get tired of groups crying "discrimination" if their behavior is outside of the social norm or even established law.
     
  3.  
  4. MililaniBuckeye

    MililaniBuckeye The satanic soulless freight train that is Ohio St Staff Member Tech Admin

    "My argument is that it is not in the childs best intrest."

    What is not in the child's best interest? The decision to keep the child from the polygamist father, or allowing the father to teach the child? It appears that your statements follwing the one I quoted above points towards The father teaching polygamy is not in the best interest of the child. While I agree wholeheartedly, let me play devil's advocate. You say, "Polygamy has a history of child abuse, rape, incest, and statutory rape. Thisi is the only leg we have to stand on, we must prove that teaching polygamy will put the child in danger."[/i] Well, child abuse, rape, incest, and statutory rape exist in single-spouse marriages also.
     
  5. True But I have some good evidence that hopefully will be enough to make a strong correlation between polygamy and abuse, even some that connects it to being in a cult.
    The professor is Mr. Devil's advocate, no matter how strong your case is he will find something you say and use to make you look dumb. (You can tell he gets a bonor when he totally shoots down an argument) This is good practice.
     
  6. MililaniBuckeye

    MililaniBuckeye The satanic soulless freight train that is Ohio St Staff Member Tech Admin

    Sheep: You are correct in your professor will rip your argument, regardless of your position, and that is exactly his/her job. I think you'll have a tough time arguing that polygamy is worse than normal marriage using child abuse, rape, incest, and statutory rape as evidence since it happens on both sides (and I doubt that they happen all that much more on the polygamy side, especially down South). I personally would argue that having multiple wives is inherently more unstable than a single-wife marriage. Having multiple wives is more prone to jealousy among the wives, and could cause more confusion among the children (are they to be as loyal to their non-biological "mother(s)" as to their real one?). Also, in the case of a divorce, does the husband divorce one or all, and if he divorces them all, how is alimony determined? Lastly, in the event of the husband's death, how is his estate divided among the wives? Does the court go by the tenure of each marriage, i.e., the wive who was married the longest to the husband gets a bigger percentage than the other(s)?
     
  7. BuckeyeSoldier

    BuckeyeSoldier 2 time Reigning BuckeyePlanet Poker Champion

    ok, first of all KNOWING about it is not going to harm this child.. im curious as to the age of the child, it seems important for my next point, because you do realize its not illegal for anyone to know about anything we may consider obscene such as pedophilia, beastiality(sp?), incest... and i will be SHOCKED if the supreme court doesnt smack this ruling down.. there is no LEGAL basis for why this girl cant learn about this topic.
     
  8. MililaniBuckeye

    MililaniBuckeye The satanic soulless freight train that is Ohio St Staff Member Tech Admin

    Soldier: I think the point is not the child "knowing" about polygamy, but rather actively being taught that lifestyle and even being exposed to that environment. It's like the difference between teaching a child what beastiality is and sending him/her to live with her relative who will f*ck the dog in front of her.
     
  9. BuckeyeSoldier

    BuckeyeSoldier 2 time Reigning BuckeyePlanet Poker Champion

    thats not what it sounded like in the original post.. but even still.. i dont believe it is legal to practice polygamy in pennsylvania so he cant actually be showing her anything legally.. so if that was the case, this would be a non-issue
     
  10. info for our cause

    ``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````The point that polygamy is illegal is something we will throw in, but it really doenst matter. Laws that are made which are unconstitutional can be thrown out.

    Here's some facts for are side.

    "we know from our work in domestic and child abuse that the climate most conductive to abuse is the one in high secrecy, isolation, and male dominence. The polygamous community is, therefore a logical place to foscus special efforts to reach out to abuse victims."
    Utah Attorney General

    According to an article written by The Guardian April 21 1999 London England
    "A host of crimes and troubles can be linked to polygamy. Among them welfare fraud, lapses of medical attention, including prenatal care, taht lead to birth deformities, incest and underage sex with girls as young as 10 being forced into sexual unions. Women are forced to exist in legal limbo, often with no birth certificates, driver licenses or social security cards. They are relaticely uneducated and have little marketable jobs skills should they chose to leave.

    This is very important
    CNN article Wensday December 10 2003
    Common Pleas Judge Stephen Linebaugh
    Prohibits Shepp from teaching Kaylynne about polygamy, plural marriages at least untill she was 18.
    Shepps belief in polygamy, Linebaugh wrote, "if he would follow through with it, it would not only be illegal in Pennslyvania, but would also be immoral and illogical. The issue is not having such a belief, but his intrest in pursuing that belief, which the testimony indicates he clearly would."
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2004

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