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I see why Bucknuts doesn't allow political discussions now!

Discussion in 'Open Discussion (Work-safe)' started by Thump, May 13, 2004.

  1. Thump

    Thump Hating the environment since 1994

    I'll be the first to admit that I have participated in some political discussions over here and some of them have gotten pretty heated but I now understand after visiting this site why Bucknuts doesn't allow political discussion.

    Almost every thread in this room has turned political somehow or the other and all that ends up happening is the same people rehash the same crap over and over. Again, I'm as guilty as anyone else in here.

    This has lead to me visiting this site a little less as of late b/c it's just the same stuff over and over. I really like this site but I don't usually enjoy getting in heated debates with fellow Buckeye Fans.

    After all, that's why we are all here, we're Buckeyes!!

    There are posts in here that start out with no political intent but somehow get turned into that.

    I'm also aware that if I don't want to read the stuff then I shouldn't click on it but some of the threads that have nothing to do with politics somehow evolve into political discussions.

    GO BUCKS!!
    Last edited: May 13, 2004
  2. FCollinsBuckeye

    FCollinsBuckeye Senior Former Game Champion

    My candidate can beat up your candidate, Thump :p

    hehe :wink:
  3. coxew

    coxew Newbie

    Very well said Thump. I've chosen to stay out of all the political talk here because I get so fired up when I read the views of some and don't want to offend others. The bickering over here makes the Zwick/Smith talk on Bucknuts seem childish.
  4. BuckeyeInTheBoro

    BuckeyeInTheBoro This space left intentionally blank

    Typical right-wing gestapo response. If someone doesn't say what you want them to say, just take away free speech... Geez Thump. :wink2:
  5. vrbryant

    vrbryant Ever thus to ____ers Staff Member

    You've certainly got a point, Thump. I think you'll find, however, that if you stick around another 114 days, people will start caring a lot less about the organized farce we call a presidential election, and a lot more about Buckeye football. In fact, I can almost guarantee it.

    Furthermore, I can say without looking that while the Open Discussion board is a minefield of ridiculously fruitless political debates, the Football > Buckeyes thread is pure pigskin.

    I would also venture to say that while political discussions can and do get a little heated at times, I see no reason not to have them. Bucknuts is a business, unlike this place. They run it as such, and that's fine. Personally, I would prefer that people have the freedom to spout off on any topic that strikes them without fear of censorship. Otherwise, it's not a 'forum'.

    In any case, I hope you can find a happy middle ground, and stay on as a valued and contributing member.
  6. Clarity

    Clarity Will Bryant Staff Member

    Funny this. I just got done writing the birthday announcement, which openly celebrates how people have done well with the freedoms we afford here.

    BP is a work in progress, one that we have to adapt and tweak as we go. I think a lot of people appreciate being able to discuss topics (with other Buckeye fans) that they can't elsewhere. It absolutely does get out of hand. I'm always disappointed to see when someone gets overzealous with their own brand of biased rhetoric, and drags a thread down with closed-mindedness that can sometimes be sort of shocking.

    But that's life. And what can happen here is that others can step in and say "look, bro, great we disagree and all, because that's what America is all about, but let's see if we can try and understand each other's rationale, instead of just throwing shit at each other."

    BP will not be what some people are looking for. On the other hand, if anyone stops visiting because they don't like what they're reading, then they're not making use of what BP has to offer. You can *choose* to not read any thread you like. You can *choose* to put people on ignore that you don't like, and never see a single post from them. You can even *choose* to start a thread on any topic you like, and limit who can or can not participate in it.

    It's about freedom of expression, and the ability to define your own experience here. Every user here has the tools necessary to see BP as they wish to. Some don't want the political debates (lately I've been thinking that may deserve its own forum, get it off the Open Discussion board), some do.

    Instead of saying "this sucks", say "maybe this is how we could do it better."

    But really, if BP isn't for you, don't hesitate. RUN towards your nearest exit and don't look back. OSU fans have choices. Ours is an entirely different atmosphere from Bucknuts, which is different from O-Zone, which is different from BSB. Find one or more that appeal to you, and visit them. It's really that simple.

    Here, community standards rule. When something isn't the way we as a whole like it, we as a community will change it. Yes, some of the political discussions are out of hand. So what should WE do about it?

    Stifle them? Censor them? Outlaw them? Tell the mods to go ahead and start defining for themselves what you should or should not be able to talk about? And/or how you should talk about it?

    No thanks. Let's talk about giving it a dedicated area instead, at least until after the elections. Maybe a fractured area where conservatives have an area, liberals have an area, and then an open arena where the two can interact. I don't know, because I don't have all the answers. Even if I did, I don't want to dictate to the community how it should operate.

    I find this thread immensely disappointing. It tells me that people have entirely missed the point of BP. And if all you see is the political bickering, then that's clearly all you've been looking at and for. There are great convos going on in the football forum, in the recruiting forum, even in open discussion.

    What I'm hearing is, "I hate the stuff I keep looking at!" Okay, look at something else. Want to talk politics without it getting out of hand? Start a thread to do just that. Don't want to talk politics at all? Don't. Have a better idea of how to handle it? Say so.
    Last edited: May 13, 2004
  7. Oh8ch

    Oh8ch Cognoscente of Omphaloskepsis Staff Member

    I like talking politics. I am pretty much retired and without the 'water cooler' typing out my positions actually helps me think through what they are. (I will even confess to posting some positions I don't support just to stir the pot now and then - I just love the debate.)

    Suggestion - I know we already have a board for 'Board Politics' but perhaps we need another for 'political discussion'. When a chat gets political the mods can tell them to take it over there. (I know, a new board for every problem is not always the solution.)
  8. ScarletNGry

    ScarletNGry Moderator Staff Member

    Politics are a passionate subject. There are very few people that follow politics that don't truely believe one side or the other. Take it for what it is worth. All political conversations will be conducted in generally the same fashion.

    Person 1: Your candidate did this!

    Person 2: Oh yeah, well yours did this!


    That is unfortunately due to the fact that the campaigns are run on degrading the oposition. Very few campaigns are run on a positive base anymore.

    As Clarity said, it is sad that you have taken that type of stance, especially since you do have so much control over what you do and don't see in here.
  9. BrutusBobcat

    BrutusBobcat Icon and Entertainer

    I think that the political discussions here have been very good, and at a high quality level. It's pretty impressive, IMO.

    Maybe you're like one of those women who can't stand it when guys are talking about sports, even when it's a good conversation. :wink:

    *ducks and runs* :biggrin:
  10. Clarity

    Clarity Will Bryant Staff Member

    First, let me say that I haven't missed your message. You make valid points. If political rhetoric is infecting threads that shouldn't contain it, then we do have a problem.

    I am of the opinion that it's time for a forum just for the political debate. And when someone brings the nastier side of politics into a thread that shouldn't have it, let's point them towards the new area. If I have to mod up a few more people for the sole purpose of splitting threads to move politics over to a politics forum, then so be it.

    If the tone of my original response is combative at all, I don't mean it to be. I personally see Bucknuts (as it has become) as what not to be. Which isn't to say that we shape BP to be a polar opposite in every respect, but hearing that maybe stifling conversation with heavy-handed censorship is a better way to go -- well, that's a difficult pill to swallow.

    Everyone does need to understand the community standards approach. Every user has a voice and plays a role here. All of you are encouraged to grab something and try and make it better.

    This thread demonstrates that one area in particular could be improved, so let's talk about how to do it. Is a new forum in this case the answer? It may well be. Does anyone else have another suggestion? Are the more hard-line types willing to try and police themselves more -- not stop what they're doing, but keep it in appropriate threads better? There are dozens of ways we can address this.
  11. buckiprof

    buckiprof 21st Century Buckeye Man Staff Member

    I never understood the phrase, "Two things to not discuss are politics and religion" because those are the most fascinating things to discuss. Some of the political discussions do get heated, but that is the nature of the subject matter. I have also seen some political discussions here that have been civil and people actually reading and responding with each other, instead of the usual "You are from the left or the right, so what you say is wrong".

    A true political discussion should challenge one's beliefs, views, stances, and convictions assuming of course that an open mind is involved. That is what I find fascinating about the political debates here.

    We were brought here because of our love of all things OSU. And we can disagree with each other about politics, religion, abortion, or whatever is a hot button topic. But after the debate we still have our love of OSU as the glue that bonds us all. For this reason, that is what makes this the best (IMO) of the Buckeye related boards. We are a community (and getting larger each day) and in a community there will be differences of political opinion. But let some scUM supporter find his way here and attack a poster that I may have had political disagreements with here, and I will defend said poster against the scUM weasel.

    As Clarity put it

    What more could anyone want in a board?
  12. BuckeyeInTheBoro

    BuckeyeInTheBoro This space left intentionally blank

    hmmm.. I don't really get the reaction to this thread. He said he found he was visiting less and less as he didn't like the direction things were taking. Isn't that exactly how it's supposed to work? Either attempt to change it (perhaps the purpose of this thread) or ignore it (he addressed why this was getting difficult) or leave (he's coming less and less).

    Anyway Clarity, I think we all enjoy this board (or we wouldn't be here) so please don't get offended or discouraged by someone pointing out an issue... especially one that will solve itself with a little football and an election.

    Edit: Too late with my response... sounds like this thread already changed in this direction. I would delete the above, but I said it so I'll leave it.
  13. Thump

    Thump Hating the environment since 1994

    "I find this thread immensely disappointing. It tells me that people have entirely missed the point of BP. And if all you see is the political bickering, then that's clearly all you've been looking at and for. There are great convos going on in the football forum, in the recruiting forum, even in open discussion.

    What I'm hearing is, "I hate the stuff I keep looking at!" Okay, look at something else. Want to talk politics without it getting out of hand? Start a thread to do just that. Don't want to talk politics at all? Don't. Have a better idea of how to handle it? Say so."


    I'm still kind of a novice at the site and getting used to it's functions so as far as the blocking option, I'll have to check it out.

    Secondly, I guess I should have made it more clear how well I like this site. You've busted your butt make this a great place. I thank you for that and hope that I didn't come off like I hate this place because I don't.

    I do visit other boards on this site but you mention to visit the open discussion forum, that is where all the political hijacking and bickering takes place!

    I just hate how any all and all topics somehow end up as a liberal vs. conservative battleground.

    As far as starting a thread about politics without it getting out of hand, there is no way that would happen.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
  14. Clarity

    Clarity Will Bryant Staff Member

    This is why I followed up with my second post. I'm not offended or discouraged by the comments themselves. I'm discouraged by the theme, which was "I'm being forced off this site by something I don't like, the censorship at Bucknuts is better." I want people to feel like they are in command of their experience here. I also want them to know they have a voice in how things are handled and structured.

    I regret the tone of my first response. It seems to want to slap Thump around a bit, and that wasn't my interest. Appreciate that I hadn't even submitted the Birthday announcement when I read this, so the timing led to some frustration.

    If anyone feels they have to leave this site because they're having a poor experience, then I've failed to meet my vision. That's not Thump's fault, that's a matter of me not being clear enough to people. So that's the goal in this thread.

    PLEASE everyone, feel free to offer constructive criticism and perspective. Let's absolutely talk about what's wrong with BP. But let's also talk about how we can improve it.

    That's what I want out there, that's what I feel may not be 'out there' enough, and that's what disappointed me. I am by no means frustrated, angry, or disappointed in Thump, or the purpose and goal of his comments. Those I appreciate.

    You are exactly right.

    I meant what I said about there being different experiences available for OSU fans, and that BP won't work for everyone. BP is fun for me to work on, but I'm not so closely wrapped up in it that I'm offended by someone not liking it. I'm not put off by criticism, dislike, discontent or anything else. But it does provoke a desire to reinforce the basic philosophy, which is "community standards and design."
  15. ScarletNGry

    ScarletNGry Moderator Staff Member

    BitB, you are correct. I think I worded that wrong. I would have rather seen it simply say that he is not happy that the political discussions are taking over threads that otherwise should not be political. Instead I seem to get the feeling he was saying that "this is the problem and instead of helping the situation, I am just gonna quit coming here even though I enjoy other parts of the site". I would much rather anyone throw out suggestions for remedy than see them state that they think there is a problem and are leaving. If you want to leave, Good-bye, nice chatting. If you want to continue visiting a great site but would like to see if certain things can change, toss the idea out and see what happens.

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