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If AG and JT are guilty...

Discussion in 'ESPN's 04-05 war against tOSU and Tressel' started by IrontonBuck, Nov 24, 2004.

  1. IrontonBuck

    IrontonBuck Walk On

    ... of arranging money and grades for the star players, as ESPN wants so despirately to prove, why are they so stubbornly denying the allegations? AG is about ready to retire anyway. Why put himself through all of this if he's still going to be exposed and embarassed in the end? Why not just retire, and then put the least damaging spin on it? Why would JT remain so stoic against the storm of controversy against him? Why wouldn't he just come forward, say "I made a mistake", and then go off to coach in the NFL?

    Answer? Because they are men of character who are being thoroughly libeled and slandered in the media, and they won't bend to this assault that is just wrong.

    By the way, about that new ESPN article. No one says that anyone at the university arranged anything for them. In fact, they say they have to search out the cheaters to get "hooked up". There are cheaters everywhere. Among the players at OSU, in the Columbus community, in Ann Arbor, Lincoln, Norman, Tallahassee, Gainesville...you name it. What was said today is NOT evidence to coroborate Mo's claims. No one in this article said that OSU knew or did anything. Just more crap, fellas. More crap in the concerted effort to bring down the Buckeyes.
     
  2. DiHard

    DiHard Guest

    sure.....they would come out tomorrow in a joint presser and say....you know what espn you got us.....we willingly throw away our reputations and retire....

    give me a break.....your stance is unbelievable...
     
  3. scarletngray

    scarletngray Gold Pants

    The articles of the players being quoted about jobs and tutors is much more a reflection of their own personal character and morals, not that of tOSU.

    Birds of a feather....
     
  4. Oh8ch

    Oh8ch Cognoscente of Omphaloskepsis Staff Member

    I still haven't seen anything from anyone but MC to even suggest that AG or JT were directly involved in any of this. They are saying you can find help but nobody has said AG or JT so much as pointed them towards it.

    The tough question is should they have known. I am in no position to express an opinion on that one.
     
  5. ohiobuck94

    ohiobuck94 Buckeye Beach Bum

    [ O-Zone Fan Forum ]

    By PawBuck on 22:54:56 11/24/04

    Carter and Pugac Jr. admit they are cheaters. :slappy: I wonder if they graduated.

    I hope hey aren't working on becoming brain surgeons. :(
     
  6. DiHard

    DiHard Guest

    again......y'all are missing the forrest for the trees....

    maybe its better to have your head in the sand.....who knows...
     
  7. ohiobuck94

    ohiobuck94 Buckeye Beach Bum

    I don't know about tOSU. I do know that these players who are coming forward are admitting to flaws in their character.
     
  8. OH10

    OH10 *

    Ok, I realize we want to attack the credibility of every player that has come out, but maybe we need to start considering that this story has got some legs now. Mr. Friend has really slapped us upside the head with this one. Players w/out real discernible axes to grind.
     
  9. BuckeyeTillIDie

    BuckeyeTillIDie The North Remembers

    seriously, what the fuck does that mean?!
     
  10. osugrad21

    osugrad21 Capo Regime Staff Member

    It means get ready....
     
  11. BuckeyeTillIDie

    BuckeyeTillIDie The North Remembers

    the suspense is killing me :tic:
     
  12. IrontonBuck

    IrontonBuck Walk On

    Well, my original question, which I guess I didn't state clearly enough, was: why would AG and JT torture themselves over this? If they are guilty, denying it now will just make it worse later. AG could retire right now and then deny any involvement, and be just fine. So could JT. They can't get in criminal trouble. They both have plenty of $ to retire on. And their reputations are already damaged by ESPN.

    Suppose you tell me why that is so unbelieveable, DiHard.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2004
  13. Buckeyeskickbuttocks

    Buckeyeskickbuttocks Z --> Z^2 + c Staff Member

    Ironton - Your theory is one of the most ridiculous notions I've ever had the misfortune of contemplating. You don't understand why Tressel and Gieger would dispute the allegations because if they were "guilty" they'd just retire?

    Name one former coach who had the NCAA come calling who just threw up his hands, said "Well, you got me" (even before the investigation uncovered anything) and retired. One. That's all I ask. I mean that dipstick down at Baylor - Bliss.... He didn't just say, well fuck.. No, he:

    "was proud of his squeaky-clean reputation at Baylor, and he wanted to keep it that way. So, rather than fess up to the infractions, Bliss concocted a story that Dennehy got his money from selling drugs, rather than from Bliss himself. The coach even tried to get his players and coaches to go along with the tale."

    In other words, Bliss didn't just say "Well fuck, you got me" the instant allegations were made. He fought them, and even made up a story about a dead kid in an effort to keep his job.

    Bliss ultimately did resign, "thanks to one of Bliss's assistants who taped several conversations. Bliss resigned before the tapes were made public, after a Baylor committee had discovered the wrongdoings anyway."

    I guess no one has JT or AG on tape? You see what I'm getting at? People fight allegations made against them as long as they can. This isn't too surprising. And it has little to do with being men of strong charecter or whatever the hell your reasoning was. It has to do with keeping your friggin job as long as you can.
     
  14. ysubuck

    ysubuck Be water my friend.

    Pagac doesn't have an axe to grind?!?! Interview Pagac SR. about his son's accusations. What do you think he would have to say?
    :slappy:

    Again, why not interview Herbstreit? He's in the same building. He's a nationally recognized figure. That would lend some credibility to one side of the story anyway.

    Why not interview Craig Krenzel? If he supports what ESPN is reportng then that would put the story above reproach in most fans eyes. Wouldn't Craig Krenzel be a target of boosters? He was the NC quarterback after all.

    Will Smith? I'm sure he's available to the media, especially ESPN.

    But Jack Tucker, Leandre Boone, Fred Pagac, Drew Carter, Marco Cooper, and the rest of the practice squad (I know, Carter was a player. Pagac contributed as well, but c'mon!) are the best that ESPN can come up with to corroborate this story. It seems to me that some of these guys should forfeit their degrees if they indeed let tutors complete assignments for them. They are adults and know the rules.

    You would think that McMullen would have an axe to grind of all people. I'm sure he doesn't feel that he was given a fair shot last season. McMullen said that he never heard or saw anything the like of which is being reported.

    Maybe something will come of this, who knows. But to this point, ESPN is seriously lacking in the credibility department.
     
  15. sandgk

    sandgk Watson, Crick & A Twist

    kickbuttocks --

    What you are trying to show I believe is that Ironton's theory is a syllogism and a badly flawed one at that when stated thus "They say they are innocent, ergo they cannot be at fault, ergo they are innocent." Certainly such a stance by the Head Coach or AD, in and of itself, offers no proof either positive or negative, for or against the truth of the matter.

    However, tossing the putrid example of Bliss at Baylor into this is really extreme - and irrelevant. Bliss's actions were simply criminal and immoral in any simple definition of either term. Bliss's actions had nothing to do with ignorance of the matter for he put himself squarely in the center of the entire tragic affair through his attempts to manipulate the players, what they said and in trying to alibi himself by slandering the deceased.

    In the case of tOSU what you actually have is the AD coming out strongly against the first round of accusations made by MoC and others, and taking a firm position decrying the general slant ESPN has adopted post the intitial publication of the same. Notably, within the same press conferences in which Geiger took ESPN to task, this same AD is on record saying come NCAA - come investigate, we welcome that. That's not like Bliss at all. Moreoever, the combination of the strong, vehement stance Geiger adopted and the simultaneous invite to the NCAA (which they have already taken up) is in my opinion unparalleled. Geiger is a smart fellow, I do not believe he arrives at this positive position lightly. Remember Geiger effectively went ahead of the NCAA by firing the head Basketball coach O'Brien. His present stance then is very striking.

    Now how does JT's stance in this compare to Bliss's - night and day IMHO. His response is very much the same that any coach might take when faced with this type of situation. He is waiting now for the NCAA to complete its work, in large part for the second time. JT is not taking an NCAA can go screw themselves stance - - which is what Bliss effectively did.

    Finally, do any of the revelations from prior players, or positions adopted by the AD and Head Coach mean that the NCAA will find zero reason to take any kind of action - no, of course not. However, to this point neither does it mean the NCAA is destined to give tOSU any type of punishment (from light to a true reaming).

    This is going to take many weeks/months to sort itself out. Only then will we know what the investigating committee believes is true or untrue, and the quantity and type of actions tOSU will have to take.
     

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