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MLB General Discussion (Official Thread)

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not houstons??? i think their starting pitching is incredible....

im not saying the yankees have bad starting pitching.....they'll win 100 games.....i just like these other teams playoff pitching much better....
 
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Nixon: "When people talk about these "curses", they're usually talking about the flukish chokes. Well OSU and the Red Sox had the same number of "chokes"."

No, they're not - curses are coincided with length of futility. Cubs fans claim to be "cursed," and they haven't even had a single close call since 1908. Not a single one. If someone used your rationale, the Yankees would be more "cursed" with close calls in '01 and '03 than the Cubs. The Red Sox' curse is accentuated by, not defined by, kick to the nuts close calls over that span.

And as far as the Red Sox are concerned, the Sox were the dominant team in baseball at the turn of the century. They had the most championships (5) with the World Series win in 1918, and then they trade the best player in the game to the Yankees, don't win another one for 86 years (and counting), and watch the Yanks win 26 Titles in that time. It looks, smells, & acts like a curse to me.
 
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nixon,

thats the whole fun of pre-season...you never know...heck, brown or mussina could win the cy this year....oakland could lose three starters.....etc....but its fun to talk about....
 
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Well, fine then. But I don't believe that there is some mystical force stopping Boston from winning the World Series. I don't believe that there is some psychological force stopping Boston from winning the World Series.

The longest steak in baseball history of no World Series is held by the Phillies. The Phillies went from 1883 to 1980 without winning the World Series. Their curse did not prevent them from eventually winning. Of course, I don't want to imply that you are saying there is some mystical force preventing the Red Sox, because I haven't actually seen you say that.
 
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DiHard said:
nixon,

thats the whole fun of pre-season...you never know...heck, brown or mussina could win the cy this year....oakland could lose three starters.....etc....but its fun to talk about....
Click to expand...

I agree. I hope I'm not coming off as being purposefully argumentitive or something. I love baseball. I have much less emotion invested in the outcome, though, than I do in OSU sports, so it's much easier to have a level-headed conversation.
 
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Nixon: "Of course, I don't want to imply that you are saying there is some mystical force preventing the Red Sox, because I haven't actually seen you say that."

Nah, I don't believe in mystical forces. I believe in stupid front offices, and that's what causes franchises to be "cursed." Case in point: mystical forces didn't sell Babe Ruth to the Yankees, or trade Lou Brock to the Cardinals, or be the last team to integrate baseball, or let Greg Maddux walk (in his prime) to the Braves, or let Roger Clemens walk to the Blue Jays. Stupid G.M.'s did all of that.

You can definately trace "curses" as an end result of those moves, don't you agree?
 
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Of course. But it's not like the same guys been in charge the whole time. Frazee sold Ruth, Duquette let Clemens walk. I guess my point is I think the whole curse thing is silly. The past is the past, and whether the Red Sox sold the Bambino or not is irrelevant to whether or not they are going to win the pennant in 1990, 2004, or 2018. So I guess I just don't get the point of talking about curses. I think it's just a way for Red Sox and Cubs fans to console themselves(and Indians fans too I must admit..."the curse of Rocky Colavito").
 
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DiHard said:
no...its cool nixon....good banter over baseball is always fun....until my team goes in the tank...then i dont want to talk about them.....
Click to expand...

Maybe you mentioned this before, but just out of curiosity, who is your team? I see we have a Yankees fan here, me who is really an Indians fan but on the side pulls for the Reds and Yanks, and a disgruntled Indians fan.
 
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Nixon: "But it's not like the same guys been in charge the whole time."

Actually, that's not true. The Tribune Company has owned the Cubs all these years, and the Yawkey Family has owned the Red Sox from the 20's or 30's (I believe) until a few years ago. Bad ownership that's not committed to winning hires bad G.M.'s, doesn't care about the team, and does the things that cause futility. Its all a trickle down effect, and as we can see, can last for decades.

Now, the "Curse of Colavito" and the like is definately more than a crutch than a curse.
 
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reds fan since the day i can remember....my emergence into loving sports/baseball was at the same time as the big red machine....and i grew up in ohio....and im loyal....buckeye till i die....reds till i die....
 
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That's true ownership is the same, but just because they don't win doesn't mean they don't care. From everything I've read about the Yawkeys they were very much commited to winning. Now they did do stupid things, like being the last to integrate as you mentioned(not to mention choosing Pumpsie Green as their first black player). But you can hardly trace the failures of the Yawkeys to sale of Ruth 15 years before they bought the team. Nor are the Yawkeys responsible for the 03 Red Sox finishing one win short of the WS.

And I could make the same argument about the Indians. They had lousy management from Frank Lane all the way up until John Hart took over.
 
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nixon,
ill also tell you.....marge schott was one of the most mistreated individuals i have ever known....the media hated her...and they treated her horribly.....she was actually a good owner and a great lady...she lived a tough life...but, she was fabulous to those around her...maybe the most caring owner of our times....in terms of genuinely caring for her people....
sad to have seen her go....most especially in an exile that was horrible for her....
 
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I agree about Schott. I am not overly knowledgeable about her by any means, but she cared about winning, which is a lot more than can be said for Carl Linder or whatever his name is. A lot of the comments she made that the media had a field day with seemed to be taken out of context and/or blown out of proportion. Political correctness run amuck IMO. It was really sick when she died a few weeks ago or whenever and some media people seemed to be almost gleeful about it...save that for bin Laden and Castro and OJ Simpson, not some old woman who owned a baseball team.
 
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