• Follow us on Twitter @buckeyeplanet and @bp_recruiting, like us on Facebook! Enjoy a post or article, recommend it to others! BP is only as strong as its community, and we only promote by word of mouth, so share away!
  • Consider registering! Fewer and higher quality ads, no emails you don't want, access to all the forums, download game torrents, private messages, polls, Sportsbook, etc. Even if you just want to lurk, there are a lot of good reasons to register!

MLB General Discussion (Official Thread)

The only quarral I would have with the Babe Ruth segment is calling him the greatest "athlete". Now, I'm not naive enought to say that what he did wasn't amazing or athletic, but it was definately not more athletic than what Michael Jordan did during his career - or even what Lebron James is doing now.


Athleticism is an entirely different category than "greatest player" in my opinion. And when it comes to athleticism, Babe Ruth just does not match up with today's modern pro basketball players.
 
Upvote 0
Sloops, how would a Ruth or a Cobb do today? On one hand you have to count on the influence of the specialist pitchers....situational relief, closers, etc. Both of these guys played in the Iron Man age when 100 pitches wasn't jack. However, you also have to look at hitter-friendly ballparks and a miniscule strike zone...both designed to enhance offense.

I was thinking about Cobb's spread hand batting style. How in the world would that work today? Ichiro is the closest thing to Cobb's slap-swing style...
C3.jpg


Just some thoughts that popped in my head when reading...
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
All I have to say is this is pretty much an impossible list to make. I don't know if you all saw Cobb or Ruth play, but I never have. We really don't much about those players except for what is on paper. Baseball was a completely different game back then. I'm not saying Ruth or Cobb aren't #1 or #2...they very well could be...I just don't really know because baseball has changed and has been around for such a very long time.
 
Upvote 0
Luca: "Sloops, how would a Ruth or a Cobb do today?"

I'm not arguing with you about that. My list is basically in a vaccum, and I'm going on pure stats, plain and simple. I'm not taking into account integration, relief pitching, etc.

I will say this: I've done my research on the next nine, and I am going to get killed (AND I MEAN KILLED) when I post who I'm thinking for # 3.
 
Upvote 0
Sloopy45 said:
Luca: "Sloops, how would a Ruth or a Cobb do today?"

I'm not arguing with you about that. My list is basically in a vaccum, and I'm going on pure stats, plain and simple. I'm not taking into account integration, relief pitching, etc. .
I gotcha. Wasn't trying to argue your choices (bought the famous spikes high picture of Cobb in Cooperstown and hang it in my classroom). I was just interested in your opinion on the matter.
 
Upvote 0
Ok, here's where the fun begins. Here's where I came to this conclusion. I took the next eight players that I thought would round out the Top 10. I plugged all their totals into Excel, and prorated their stats over 162 games (yes, I know that most of these guys didn't play a 162 game schedule, but bear with me).

What I came up with is this: there are only two men of the eight who can vie for the # 3 slot: Ted Williams, and Lou Gehrig. But, if you look at the numbers, there really is only one man for the spot. I know I'm gonna get murdered for this, I know I'm gonna be told, "Put those Yankee pom-poms away," and all that crap, but I'll make my case. That man's name is:

3. Henry Louis "Lou" Gehrig. The Iron Horse: Gehrig and Williams' careers can be compared with some ease because they played in almost the same amount of games (2,292 for Ted, and 2,164 for Gehrig). Now here's where the seperation begins:

Stats:
Even though Gehrig played in about 128 less games (almost a full season in those days) than Ted, he blew him away in a lot of categories: he scored 90 more runs than Williams. He has 67 more hits than Williams, slightly more doubles (534 to 525), WAY more triples (163 to 71), are about the same in Home Runs (493 for Gehrig and 521 for Williams), are the same in average (.344 to .340), Slugging (.634 to .632), but Lou has a decided advantage in Total Bases (5,060 to 4,884). Williams only significantly beats Gehrig in two categories: OBP, which Williams is # 1 all-time with a .482 clip, and Lou's lifetime total is .447, and walks, where Williams has about 500 more.

But here's where the seperation is confirmed: RBIs. If you prorate Gehrig's run production over 162 games, he averaged (yes, AVERAGED) 149 RBIs per season. Wow! Williams came in with an impressive 130 clip, too. Gehrig has 156 more RBIs than Williams and played in 128 less games. You can't argue that. Gehrig topped 175 RBIs three times in his career! Just simply unbelivable.

Awards:
Gehrig is a two time MVP ('27 and '36) and won the AL Triple Crown in 1934 with .363, 49, and 165.

Bottom Line:
When Gehrig's stats are prorated, he's the only man (of a list that includes the cream of the crop in baseball history) to project to 200+ hits, 40 Doubles, 12 Triples, 37 Home Runs, 140+ RBI, 100+ Walks, and blows every other man out of the water in Total Bases (379) over 162 games.

You can make an argument that Gehrig batted behind Ruth and then later DiMaggio, and you can tell me that Williams lost five prime seasons because of WWII and the Korean War. They're both valid points, but remember this: Gehrig had to give up baseball with a lot in the tank at age 36, and if you work out the numbers yourself, they will not lie: the 3rd best hitter in baseball history is the Iron Horse, Henry Louis Gehrig.

Oh, and he also played in 2,130 straight games too. Teddy Ballgame and someone else to come tomorrow.
 
Upvote 0
I could've saved you a lot of time...

...Presenting Sloop's top 10:

1. Babe Ruth
2. Lou Gehrig
3. Joe DiMaggio
4. Mickey Mantle
5. Yogi Berra
6. Whitey Ford
7. Reggie Jackson (Yankee years only)
8. Derek Jeter
9. Roger Clemens (Yankee years only)
10. Lefty Gomez

Not knocking your picks because you've done a lot of awesome research...but, like most fans, you have a SLIGHT skew towards your team. Anyway...those were just my predictions for the rest of your rankings. :biggrin2:
 
Upvote 0
One word keeps me from jumping on the new athletes bandwagon. Steroids. It's been there for years. It's impossible to say exactly when it happened,because I know a lot of guys on shit and you can't even tell they are on it.

It happens in every sport,and honestly this is totally biased but that pushes my choices more towards the older players. You put an asterik besides one person you might as well throw them on every record every broken since 1980.
 
Upvote 0
It seems like Lou and Ted were pretty close in every catagory...except for one big one, on base %. Ted is #1 in that catagory, and that's what made him so impressive. Plus the Yankees suck.
 
Upvote 0
Oil,

If my list was up to me, Donald Arthur Baseball would be # 1. I even knew that a post like that was coming from you, so I tried to make an argument against Gehrig. But in the end, I couldn't do it. Gehrig is a better hitter than Ted Williams. I will argue this with anybody, and have the stats to back it up.

P.S. I guarantee this: no more Yankees will make the Top 10. At least not from what I've seen so far.
 
Upvote 0
I wasn't serious with the list Sloop :biggrin: . I'd give you a greenie if I could right now because the research on your list is really amazing. Other than the fact that I dislike the BCS and like to make fun of the Yankee's at every chance...I like your posts, and it's fun to talk baseball with you (as long as I have my stats database handy). Keep up the good work on the top 10, I'll be checking in.
 
Upvote 0
I agree with Cobb and Gehrig being very high, but subjectively I'd put Wililams ahead of them.

Based on what I've see you post so far, I'm awaiting the flack you'll get when people see how high Jimmie Foxx ends up.
 
Upvote 0
Ok, here's # 4:

4. (No Suspense Here) Theodore Samuel Williams. "The Splendid Splinter." Its hard to understate Williams' greatness. Even though I hate the Red Sox, here is a guy that I love. And how can any baseball fan not love Teddy Ballgame. Here's the case for the 4th best player of all time:

Stats:
Williams' numbers are incredible. Looking at them, its almost unbelivable that he lost three full prime seasons at ages 24, 25, & 26 ('43, '44, & '45) serving in WWII, and lost the bulk of two more seasons at ages 33 & 34 ('52 & '53) serving in Korea. He was great, not good, for a long long time. He hit an astounding .388 with 38 homers, .526 OBP, and .731 SLG at age 38 in 1957. Wow.

Other than Ruth, Williams is the greatest combination of power & average with the ability to generate a ton of Bases on Balls. His most impressive stat might be a .482 lifetime On Base Percentage. That, of course, is first all time. Now think about that: if you're a pitcher facing Williams, you only have a slightly higher than 50% chance of getting him out. Astounding.

Williams also hit 525 Homers as a lefthanded dead-pull hitter in Fenway Park.

Awards:
Williams is a two-time MVP ('46 and '49), and one of two men in baseball history to win the Triple Crown TWICE (in 1942 and 1947)!! On a side note, how can someone win the Triple Crown twice and not get voted MVP in either season??? And we complain about the agendas and biases of the modern day CFB writers on this board! Simply amazing. Here are Williams' two Triple Crown seasons. Neither of these were good enough to win MVP:

1942 Triple Crown Season: .356 Average, 36 HR, & 137 RBI.
1947 Triple Crown Season: .343 Average, 32 HR, & 114 RBI.

Bottom Line:
Its gotta be Ted. He's so good in so many categories that its hard to put anyone else over him besides the three that I have. 2,000+ Walks, the aforementioned OBP, 500+ dongs, .344 lifetime Average, 1,800+ RBIs, I mean, you can go on and on and on.

# 5 to come tomorrow. I've researched and come up with the Top 7 so far. And I'll put it to you this way: BuckeyeBill knows what he's talking about.
 
Upvote 0
Back
Top